Hot dog ratio and questions

[andrewlong]

I've been working on a hot dog recipe, and trying to do research online. Specifically I am interested in what the best meat/fat/water ratio is best. Pretty much every person I've seen make hot dogs from scratch use Mark Ruhlman's Charcuterie book as a guide. The problem is that he uses short rib meat with no added fat (so there's no ratio to take from the recipe). With short ribs regularly being 6.99/lb around here WITH the bone (so like $15/lb without) no hot dog is worth that much. I assume chuck and added fat work, but I am not sure of the ratio. I know a typical forcemeat ratio is 5/4/3 meat/fat/liquid. Is that a good place to start for hot dogs?

Second, does the type of fat matter? If I'm buying chuck, is it ok to use suet to stay with the beef theme, or should I get pork fat?

[Wunderdave]

I don't have my copy of charcuterie in front of me but doesn't that book call for a master ratio of 5:4:3 fat:meat:water for emulsified sausages?

Seems like using short ribs alone wouldn't get you there

[andrewlong]

yeah, i think thats the ratio he uses too I dont have the book, but I've read through it. Its a very common ratio to find for forcemeats, I just wasn't sure if a typical hot dog is also a typical forcemeat.

I know, though, that he uses short ribs with no added fat. I know short ribs are fatty, but I agree I'm not sure if they are 4/9ths fat.

[Wunderdave]

Well you also need to draw a distinction between "forcemeat" and emulsified sausages. Most sausages in general could be called "forcemeats," emulsified sausages have certain characteristics of composition and processing that is a subcategory of forcemeat.

[DanMcG]

I like my hot dogs with 25-30% Pork fat. I'm not a fan of beef fat.

I think it was Vagreys that linked a book that has over 336000 variations of the frankfurter, so needless to say, it really comes down to personal taste.

[Dogfish]

Stuff I've observed around the 'net on hot dogs, and the batch I've done:

-- Bull's meat has a water holding capacity of 100%. Everything else has less capacity. Apparently, according to research I read, many commercial hotdogs are formed from pre-rigor bull's meat because it has an enormous water retaining capacity.

-- My hotdogs used pork should with the skin removed and venison heart. Heart by all definitions is quite poor at water retention but I figured hey, it's a hotdog. The weight was roughly 70/30 pork to heart. Texture wise, the hotdogs are very good when hot and middling-good when cold. I ground three times with the meat basically frozen every time.

-- I used enough water to make a stiffish slurry. I had no separation problems if the hotdogs stayed under 160 on the precook in the oven. If they got hotter the fat would settle out. The tighter the casing the better the result.

In summary what I learned from my batch and the research I came across was this: you want a fair bit more lean meat than fat because fat doesn't bind nor does it absorb water. You want to rely on water for moisture and not fat in hot dogs. Lean beef absorbs a tremendous amount of water. Colonel Big Guy and I think most people use soy protein, I just used meat. I think there's a fair bit of texture difference and I'd bet they don't have the issues with fat settling out that I did (but I'm the only recipe I've seen that dry roasts in the pre-cook).

[wheels]

FWIW from:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/Hot_Dogs/index.asp

Frankfurters (a.k.a., hot dogs, wieners, or bologna) are cooked and/or smoked sausages according to the Federal standards of identity. Federal standards of identity describe the requirements for processors to follow in formulating and marketing meat, poultry, and egg products produced in the United States for sale in this country and in foreign commerce. The standard also requires that they be comminuted (reduced to minute particles), semisolid products made from one or more kinds of raw skeletal muscle from livestock (like beef or pork), and may contain poultry meat. Smoking and curing ingredients contribute to flavor, color, and preservation of the product. They are link-shaped and come in all sizes — short, long, thin, and chubby.

The most popular of all categories, the skinless varieties, have been stripped of their casings after cooking. Water or ice, or both, may be used to facilitate chopping or mixing or to dissolve curing ingredients. The finished products may not contain more than 30% fat or no more than 10% water, or a combination of 40% fat and added water. Up to 3.5% non-meat binders and extenders (such as nonfat dry milk, cereal, or dried whole milk) or 2% isolated soy protein may be used, but must be shown in the ingredients statement on the product's label by its common name.

HTH

Phil

[DiggingDogFarm]

In general, premium hot dogs are relatively low in fat...about 20%.

Here's a article by Michael Ruhlman that has some interesting information....

http://ruhlman.com/2006/11/dogs/



~Martin