now I am very confused

Recipes and techniques using brine.

now I am very confused

Postby andyb » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:25 pm

Here are 2 recipes found on this site for ham immersion cures

400g sugar
440g sea salt
12 juniper berries
12 cloves
12 black peppercorns
3 bay leaves
4 litres water
170 gm cure #1

Using this cure I would imagine it will take at least 3 weeks to cure a rolled shoulder. I see no reason not to double up or to halve the brine recipe. As long as you keep the ingredients in proportion to the original brine.

The quantity of cure seems an awful lot. The reason for this is meat will naturally take up between 8 - 10% of it's own weight in brine. Therefore the quantity of cure has to reflect this.

As you can see there is less salt in this brine than the original. This is because of the salt in the cure #1, which is about 160 gm.


and

"Easy Ham Recipe

3 Gallons ice cold water
6oz salt (preferably iodine free or unrefined)
6oz cure No. 1 (same stuff Franco sells)
1 level tbsp ground white pepper
20 bayleaves or 1tbsp ground bayleaf
1 tbsp ground cloves
3oz brown sugar or replace 3 pints of the water with 3 pints coca cola (not diet) - I prefer the coke, trust me it works!!




I have read many times the importance of getting the amount of cure right..yet recipe one seems to use 4 times (approx) the amount of cure (per litre) to recipe 2

if anyone could help I would be very gratefull

cheers

Andy
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Postby jpj » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:18 pm

get yourself some saltpetre, and the confusion of/over sodium chloride amounts disappears
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Postby andyb » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:28 pm

thanks jpj,

I will probably do this..

do you have a failsafe recipe using saltpeter to cure bone in hams with an immersion cure ?

cheers

Andy
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Re: now I am very confused

Postby saucisson » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:43 pm

Important please read
I've just recieved this from Oddley who wrote the first recipe, he (Oddley) is away on business and so didn't have time to enter into the discussion, but was anxious you should read this:

"The following recipe is one I made up, before discovering the FDA inspectors handbook, and is dangerous as an immersion cure. Please advise the poster. "

Almost all Oddley's recipes have been updated with this important information and I will add it to that one which slipped through the net, as it were.

Hope this clarifies things,

Dave

andyb wrote:Here are 2 recipes found on this site for ham immersion cures

400g sugar
440g sea salt
12 juniper berries
12 cloves
12 black peppercorns
3 bay leaves
4 litres water
170 gm cure #1

Using this cure I would imagine it will take at least 3 weeks to cure a rolled shoulder. I see no reason not to double up or to halve the brine recipe. As long as you keep the ingredients in proportion to the original brine.

The quantity of cure seems an awful lot. The reason for this is meat will naturally take up between 8 - 10% of it's own weight in brine. Therefore the quantity of cure has to reflect this.

As you can see there is less salt in this brine than the original. This is because of the salt in the cure #1, which is about 160 gm.


and

"Easy Ham Recipe

3 Gallons ice cold water
6oz salt (preferably iodine free or unrefined)
6oz cure No. 1 (same stuff Franco sells)
1 level tbsp ground white pepper
20 bayleaves or 1tbsp ground bayleaf
1 tbsp ground cloves
3oz brown sugar or replace 3 pints of the water with 3 pints coca cola (not diet) - I prefer the coke, trust me it works!!




I have read many times the importance of getting the amount of cure right..yet recipe one seems to use 4 times (approx) the amount of cure (per litre) to recipe 2

if anyone could help I would be very gratefull

cheers

Andy
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Postby andyb » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:49 pm

Thanks Dave

so does spuddys still stand even with that small amount of salt..or can Oddley advise of a better recipe ?

Time is running out and i am still no closer..I have e mailed the sausage making site but have recieved no help whatsoever.

Trawling the internet has just confused issues although I am learning a lot..

Andy
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Postby saucisson » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:58 pm

Yes, it's the amount of cure that was the safety issue. The amount of salt has become more of a taste issue these days now that we can brine at refrigerated temperatures. At least that is my understanding. Hopefully once Oddley gets back we can sort out some simple brine recipes to put up as a sticky.
Edit: for now stick with Spuddy's if using cure#1.
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Postby Spuddy » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:03 pm

Just to put your mind at rest Andy; that recipe is a properly calculated immersion cure (NOT a pump only cure) which will cure a 4.5Kg piece of ham in 10-12 days.
If you need to to then just scale it up (including the time) for larger pieces.
It seems low in salt but bear in mind that around 95% of cure#1 is also salt so the resulting ham is (in my opinion) just right.
Try it, you won't be disappointed (or hurt :)).
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Postby andyb » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:43 am

Thanks for that Spuddy , the hams I will be curing will be about 7 or 8 kilos I would imagine so I shall scale the salt and cure 1 accordingly , I imagine 4 gallons of water should cover it.. could you tell me if the water/salt/cure ratio is crucial or the meat weight/salt cure ratio.. I(if that makes sense)
sorry to sound like a dunce.. I just want to be sure !

Thanks

Andy
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Postby Spuddy » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:13 am

Definitely scale up the water as well. The whole principle of an immersion cure is something called "equalisation" which is all about balance. Upset the balance and you get the wrong result.
I hope that helps.
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Postby andyb » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:54 am

Certainly does

Thanks for your help


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Postby Spuddy » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:11 pm

No problem.
Let us know how it turns out.
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