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captain wassname wrote:Hello Ive been thinking for a couple of days It would seem to me that this thread is concerned with pumped dry rubbed ham and in order to be granted the status of a sticky should be more than the questions of myself and Ian and replies of Dave and Phil. However I have questions and some assumtions.

Please forgive my lack of comunnication and keyboard skills.

Assumtion; inject and rub is an equillibrian cure in an easier and more foolproof method.
Note: I have yet to find out much more than the existance of such cures.(Iwill undoubtedly post questions in an approptiate thread soon)

Inject and rub is an different process and the levels of cure are easier to calculate. Hence it's use. Info about this can be found here. (I have not posted this link to confuse you, but it's a great, if complicated, document for anyone wanting to cure safely).

Assumtion : Inject at 10% by weight is because 10%by weight is what a piece of meat would soak up if it were immersed in a brine.

Yep, that's about it!

Assumtion the rub part is to give the outside of the meat proction against bacteria.

The inject (pump) adds half the cure in this recipe, the rub the rest. Both will give protection, but the real reason is to add the correct amount of cure.

Question: Is there any particular reason why cures are admistered 50% via brine injection and 50% rubbed (will elicit more questions)

All the curing salts (cure #1, saltpetre) could be injected in the 10% of liquid - you would normally then put the meat into the same brine which would need a lot more brine to do. Dry Curing is cheaper than brine, but would take quite a while for a ham - this recipe is a compromise between the two(IMO). It also gives protection to the interior of the meat more quickly. There may be other reasons but they elude me at present.

Question: Is there a minimum amount of salt needed to protect the meat
Question How much is too much salt

If you wanted to do a cure without Nitrite or Nitrate I believe that the levels required are generally quoted as in the 10-15% range (don't quote me on that), Wikipedia quotes 20% - pretty inedible anyway! If using nitrate/nitrite as in this cure the salt level is (somewhat) academic.
In terms of taste, the level varies according to personal taste (and depends on other factors as well, such as the level of sugar), a 'ball-park' figure would be between 1.5% and 3% in the finished product. (edited 10/12/08 - to hopefully clarify)


Question what temp.do I need to cure at

Fridge temperature is fine - for saltpetre the higher end is recommended and it can be argued that nearer 8�C is better.

Question; how long do I have to cure for

This type of recipe is formulated to give the correct amount of salt/cure etc as long as the minimum time is allowed - extra time, within reason won't have any detrimental effect. Other types of curing depend on the recipe and cure used. In general terms cure #1 works quickly, saltpetre slowly.

Question; If I use more salt petre will my ham/bacon be pinker.

I've never tried it - I value my health too much - but in theory yes.

Question, how much salt petre is it safe to use.

That depends on which scientists you believe. Levels of nitrite set by the US and EU are about the same. Levels of Nitrate (saltpetre included) vary wildly. The rules only apply to commercial producers but we would be silly to ignore them, and the scientific research behind them. The levels used by Oddley in the recipe comply with the US rules.

I was about to put some question re Oddleys wiltshire ham receipe which I used with no problen (other than self inflicted) but I think it may be the subject to a correspondence between Dave and Oddley

Hope nobody thinks Im being awkward

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't.

Jim

captain wassname wrote:Assumption; inject and rub is an equilibrium cure in an easier and more foolproof method.
Note: I have yet to find out much more than the existence of such cures.(Iwill undoubtedly post questions in an approptiate thread soon)

captain wassname wrote:Assumtion : Inject at 10% bt weight is because 10%by weight is what a piece of meat would soak up if it were immersed in a brine.

captain wassname wrote:Assumtion the rub part is to give the outside of the meat proction against bacteria.

captain wassname wrote:Question: Is there any particular reason why cures are admistered 50% via brine injection and 50% rubbed (will elicit more questions)

captain wassname wrote:Question: Is there a minimum amount of salt needed to protect the meat

Dave wrote:The only thing I was going to ask Oddley was whether it is OK to put his 2:1 recipe in the facts, not to query anything about it.

Bateman wrote:Oddly, all the stuff I've seen suggests that the salt is an inhibitor rather than a prevention against bacterial infection. Also that given sufficient time, bacterial contamination can be found even in food with a 10% salt content. The oft recommended 3-3.5% salt content seems to be an acceptable balance between taste and reasonable commercial storage time.

captain wassname wrote:Dont laugh It aint funny (well not very)

Batman wrote:I'm not sure, and would welcome your views. whether we can read across that because 3.3% salt prevents/kills trichinae (nematodes/worms) it is necessarily the right level to prevent bacterial growth.

Salt is an essential ingredient of any sausage formulation.
Salt is used to preserve the product, enhance the flavor, and
to solubilize the meat proteins in order to improve the
binding properties of the formulation.
Since the advent of refrigeration, the preservative properties
are the least important use of salt, though dry sausages still
use salt for preservation. A salt concentration of around
17% is necessary for preservation to be effective.
The most important use of salt in a sausage product is its
ability to solubilize proteins. This enhances the product
texture and improves water and fat binding.

SALT (SODIUM CHLORIDE)

Salt is the main flavouring agent used in making sausages and it contributes to basic taste characteristics of the final product. The amount of salt added depends on the sausage type and particularly on the fat content but in general it ranges from 1.8 to 2.2 percent of the sausage mix. An acceptable level of salt in dry or semidry sausages is about 3 percent. However, higher and lower salt levels are often used.

Although salt is not generally used in concentrations sufficient to effect preservation it exerts some antimicrobial activity. Some bacteria are already inhibited at 2 percent levels of salt. Other microorganisms tolerate a much higher concentration of salt.

2. Salting / curing
Salting � Salt (sodium chloride NaCl) adds to the taste of the final product. The content of salt in sausages, hams, corned beef and similar products is normally 1.5-3%. Solely common salt is used if the cooked products shall have a greyish or greyish-brown colour as for example steaks, meat balls or �white� sausages (see box page 33). For production of a red colour in meat products see �Curing� (page 34).

Chemical aspects of salting

The water holding capacity of meat can be increased with the addition of salt up to a concentration of about 5% in lean meat and then decreases constantly. At a concentration of about 11% in the meat, the water binding capacity is back to the same level as in fresh unsalted meat.

Sodium chloride has only a very low capacity to destroy microorganisms, thus almost no bacteriological effect. Its preserving power is attributed to the capability to bind water and to deprive the meat of moisture. The water loosely bound to the protein molecules as well as �free� water will be attracted by the sodium and chloride ions causing a reduction of the water activity (aw) (see page 323) of the product. This means that less water will be available and the environment will be less favourable for the growth of microorganisms. Bacteria do not grow at a water activity below 0.91, which corresponds to a solution of 15g NaCl/100 ml water or about 15% salt in the product. These figures explain how salt has its preservative effect. Such salt concentrations (up to 15%) are too high for palatable food. However, for the preservation of natural casings this method is very useful.

Heat treatment of meat salted with NaCl results in conversion of the red meat pigment myoglobin (Fe+2) to the brown metmyoglobin (Fe+3). The colour of such meat turns brown to grey (see Fig. 60, 61).


34 Principles of meat processing technology

Besides adding to flavour and taste, salt also is an important functional ingredient in the meat industry, which assists in the extraction of soluble muscle proteins. This property is used for water binding and texture formation in certain meat products (see page 129, 184).

The preservation effect, which is microbial inhibition and extension of the shelf-life of meat products by salt in its concentrations used for food (on average 1.5-3% salt), is low. Meat processors should not rely too much on this effect (see box page 33) unless it is combined with other preservation methods such as reduction of moisture or heat treatment.

captain wassname wrote:I understand. I take it that when calculating the brine concentration I include the injected salt and the rubbed salt