Hygrovating!!! There just has to be something wrong....

Tips and tecniques on dryng drying, curing etc.

Postby mrphilips » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:41 pm

yeah, but you can see in the pics that there is no slime, no mold other than this powdery white stuff.
i've had gross molds/slimey bacteria in the past too, which is why i went with the store-bought one, increased the air flow and acquired a larger chamber than the tiny one i was using.

and again, i intalled the humidifier because i was experiencing severe case hardenning in the first place... it's weird that it would work this way.

    no humidifier for 3 weeks = case hardening and mushy interior
    mild humidifier for 3 weeks = case hardening with mushy interior
    stronger humidifier for 3 weeks = case hardening and mushy interior
    stronger humidifier for 6 weeks = case hardening and mushy interior
    stronger humidifier for 6 weeks and then no humidifier for 1.5 weeks = case hardened, but interior much firmer...
    stronger humidifier for 6 weeks and then no humidifier for 3 weeks = ? will tell ya on the 19th!
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Postby Wunderdave » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:53 pm

Air flow is another significant variable, even with high humidity it can cause case hardening very easily. But I see that others have pointed that out to you ITT already.
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Postby DiggingDogFarm » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:06 pm

Does the wine cooler have it's own fan that could be causing the problem?


~Martin
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Postby mrphilips » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:28 pm

there is no built-in fan.

the wee fan i put in there may functionally do very little - as stated somewhere above, it's absolutely tiny (1" or so) and very low powered (2.5v or something like that)... you can barely feel it when you put your hand near it.
i just wanted to avoid the slime/bad mold we just spoke of and as the chamber isn't huge, a bit of air flow is a good thing - but there's no way that this unit could be too much and cause the amount of drying i'm talking about.

besides - when operated without it, i get the same excessive drying.
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Postby Wunderdave » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:44 pm

mrphilips wrote:there is no built-in fan.

the wee fan i put in there may functionally do very little - as stated somewhere above, it's absolutely tiny (1" or so) and very low powered (2.5v or something like that)... you can barely feel it when you put your hand near it.


While it might be small and not very powerful, if it runs a lot the amount of air movement within such a small chamber can easily be excessive.

I've had case hardening in my similarly sized wine cooler chamber from a 20mm computer fan running 6x daily for 15 minutes each time.
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Postby wheels » Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:45 pm

Loose the fan! ...and check the hygrostat.

Sorry, that's the best I can suggest at the moment.

Phil
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Postby mrphilips » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:39 am

i know.
and i appreciate the suggestions...
but i already did that and it made no difference.
(in fact wheels, you're the guy who first convinced me to try without!)

    i started without a fan - case hardening
    i added a large fan - case hardening
    i took out the fan - case hardening and some bad molds
    i cleaned everything out, tried again in a larger chamber with the large fan - case hardening
    i took out the large fan - case hardening and bad molds
    i started again with the worlds smallest fan and a store-bought mold - case hardening


many many more tests to go - and lots of pics to prove i've tried it both ways, i guess - we shall see but i'll buy everyone a beer if it is the fan in the end.

giev me a few months to regain my steam.
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Postby wheels » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:55 am

Doh, you've got me pullin' my hair out. I don't know whether anyone realises but some of us take it personally when things don't work out for people we've advised! If someone uses one of our recipes we're on tenterhooks until we know things are OK.

On a personal level, I wish I could have helped you more.

Phil
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Postby mrphilips » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:29 am

whoops! didn't mean to throw you under the bus, wheels ;)

it's the message board thing - i will say "i tried A, B & C", someone will say "well did you try A and C without B?", i'll say "yes" and then someone will say "try B harder"... pulling my hair out too.

your suggestions - everyone's - are appreciated.
i somehow have the perfect storm of bad curing - a bermuda triangle of dead pork.
it's not anyone's fault. what works elsewhere works lots of places... i guess i'm just unique.

i have a few thoughts to test and a few more years to try over, so it aint over till I'M THE GUY giving recipes and techniques... and when you think of it that way, if i can finally figure it out, i'll be the batman of curing and an invaluable asset to anyone else cause i learned it the hardest way. yay uphill climb.
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Postby Wunderdave » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:57 am

Good luck, Mr. Phillips. I too have been frustrated by learning how to get this technique nailed down.
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Postby NCPaul » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:37 pm

mrphilips I've been stumpted by these results and had nothing to offer. :( I'm starting to wonder if the problem might be fat smearing. Have you been grinding the meat and fat together? Using back fat? Using a stuffer? I really don't have any other ideas to offer but I do hope you suceed before everyone's hair is pulled out.
Fashionably late will be stylishly hungry.
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Postby mrphilips » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:15 am

i've thought that too.
i cut the meat and back fat and bring to near-freezing/partially-frozen seperately, and then grind them together in the kitchenaid standmixer with grinder attachment (which i see used in many charctuterie books).
then i add the remianing ingredients and mix with the stand-mixer paddle for 2 minutes (as suggested in the charctuerie books), then re-chill to near frozen.
it's like that when i stuff it using the stuffer attachment on the grinder, and if it were any less thawed the grinder will seize - it really it remarkably cold when i do it and my hands ache.

the kitchenaide mixer is not professional quality, but i'm just trying to make a few suasgaes here.


BriCan has asked for a detailed synopsis of everything from the beginning to the end, including all equipment and the recipe... when i've complied i will post it here, with pictures of me in my underwear attached, so everyone can see everything - maybe somehow something down this line was missed... and someone will find it

(while we still have hair)
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Postby DiggingDogFarm » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:05 am

mrphilips wrote: i stuff it using the stuffer attachment on the grinder


I would look closely at that, that's good for a smear.


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Postby mrphilips » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:11 am

i looked at it. looks white and plastic... do you have a suggestion?
i know the pros prefer different stuffers... i'm trying to use what's available and not break the bank, but i understand the difference quality makes... (queue music)

like... i want to make a few cured sausages. i see so many books and hear from so many online that use the kitchenaid stuff without issue... so do i have to buy all the pro equipment to be less than semi-pro?
i'm not trying to be teenaged about this, and i realize that eliminating all the weak points will help find the issue, i just won't be buying a $$ stuffer if i can't make a good sausage in the first place... i've already spent way more on this with zip to show for it and grumble grumble crap pants i'm just grumpy.
beer.

but yeah, what do you suggest? and some specifics would be good - a brand or something. i would like to check the options available around here.
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Postby mrphilips » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:14 am

oh, i have also greases it up with a teeny bit of olive oil, and not - but it seemed to produce more or less the same results.

just saying - i suspected it and tried to fix it, but i'm hear to learn, so i'm all ears
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