Textured Vegetable Protein

Tips and tecniques on dryng drying, curing etc.

Textured Vegetable Protein

Postby Banjoe » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:19 pm

Just started making our own sausage and keep turning out mealy products.

We've gone too light on the fat so that's probably our biggest mistake however, we heard that TVP can be used as a healthy replacement for fat.

Any idea if this actually works and, if so, what ratio to meat should we aim for?
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Postby SausageBoy » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:34 pm

I can't imagine tvp working well to replace fat, it's properties are nothing like fat.
It's usually used as a meat replacement or extender. IMHO, it's gross!!!!

Go here for a 'healthier' replacement for animal fat.

http://bookmagic.com/books/making-healthy-sausages

Quoting Stanley Marianski.....

"This emulsion combination is a great stuff, though I prefer 1:4:5 better:
10 g soy protein isolate, 40 g vegetable oil, 50 g water.

1. Mix in a food processor soy isolate with water until a shiny paste is obtained. This takes about a minute.
2. Add vegetable oil and cut at high speed until a stable emulsion is obtained. About 2 minutes.
It is very white, a kind of mayonnaise, but no cholesterol. It can be used as a fat replacer as it contains 5 parts of water (less calories). It binds with meat very well. Keeps well in refrigerator up to 7 days."

Pics of the emulsion....

http://bookmagic.com/books/making-healt ... /chapter-8


:D
User avatar
SausageBoy
Registered Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:25 pm
Location: New York State

Postby captain wassname » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:37 pm

you could have a read of

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... 7751ca1943

Big advantage being we know the usage rates.and that it works.
You could add back fat if you can find it or belly.

Jim
captain wassname
Registered Member
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:32 pm
Location: west cumbria

Postby Banjoe » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:27 pm

Thanks for the insight folks.

I'm not looking for a healthy product but rather a way to fix the mealy product I've been producing in my first 3 batches. Looks like I have to up the fat content quite a bit to get to a reasonably acceptable level.

Looking forward to the weekend to 'fat up' my next batch. Hopefully I can get to a reasonable sausage and then start going for good.

Thanks again.
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Postby larry » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:06 pm

When I first started out, my stuff was mealy. I was just stuffing the ground meat without mixing it, and I was not adding extra fat. Do you give it a good mix, either with a paddle attachment on a kitchen mixer, or really well by hand? If you are not using lots of fat, you can try more liquid, like wine or water, to get a good, tacky sticky mix before you stuff. I don't know if this addresses your issue.
larry
Registered Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Location: NE U.S.

Postby Banjoe » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:23 pm

larry - you're speaking to my exact problem.

I'm trying a small run this afternoon and will have your comments beside me through the process. Hopefully I'll turn out a sausage meal instead of mealy sausages.

Thanks for your thoughts.
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Re: Textured Vegetable Protein

Postby vagreys » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:53 pm

Banjoe wrote:...We've gone too light on the fat so that's probably our biggest mistake however, we heard that TVP can be used as a healthy replacement for fat.

Any idea if this actually works and, if so, what ratio to meat should we aim for?

I can see why folks thought you wanted a healthy replacement for fat.

Mealy sausage may or may not be a result of fat content. My first suspicion is that your ingredients are too warm while you are making your sausage. Fat smear will lead to mealy, dry sausage. It can be a result of grinding meat and fat that haven't been properly chilled, or from mixing sausage that has been allowed to get too warm, or from over-mixing. All of these may cause a mealy texture, even if your meat-to-fat ratio is perfect.

Unless you know without a doubt that your fat content is way low, I'd re-examine your technique before deciding that you need to use more fat, and even then, besides adding appropriate fat, I'd still re-examine your technique, If I were you.

Not chilling your meat and fat enough is a prime factor for inferior sausage.
- tom

Don't tell me the odds.

You have the power to donate life
User avatar
vagreys
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:54 pm
Location: North Chesterfield VA USA

Postby Banjoe » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:16 pm

Thanks for the thoughts. My meat & fat are now in the freezer along with the grinder parts. If you learn by your mistakes, I'm going to be a world-class sausage maker in very short order!

I'm going to do a 1 pound run this afternoon and see if the increased fat along with the chilled meat & equipment finally resolve whatever it is that I'm doing wrong. I should say things that I am doing wrong.

I am completely new at this hobby and really appreciate the help getting me up to speed.
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Postby vagreys » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:24 pm

Everyone starting out has had to deal with mealy sausage, at some point. Hope your batch this afternoon went well. You'll figure out what's going on. Keep asking questions!
- tom

Don't tell me the odds.

You have the power to donate life
User avatar
vagreys
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1620
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:54 pm
Location: North Chesterfield VA USA

Postby Banjoe » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:05 am

Just left the kitchen with my head hanging low.

Chilled everything before grinding, mixed until my hands turned blue, and then did a final grind/stuffing but all to no avail.

Flavor is good but the meat is still mealy - by which i mean that it feels like tiny balls of meat instead of a cohesive sausage material.

I'm missing something along the way but the recipes I've been using are just meat, spices, and a bit of water.

Is there some kind of a binder that I'm totally missing or can add to pull these tiny balls of meat into a passable & eatable product?

Thanks very much,

Joe
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Postby Titch » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:12 am

I am no Expert.

We had that same problem and went down a size in grinding.
We now grind twice on our last size, then leave to set overnight in the fridge.
We did up our fat content a bit as well.
We use no binder,just spices.
We do chill during the make.
Worked for us, but no idea if its much help.
We also test as we go,fry little rissoles to test. ( best part ) :D
Cheers
Marriage is a life sentence.
User avatar
Titch
Registered Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:41 am
Location: Sth east Melbourne in Aus

Postby SausageBoy » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:17 am

Joe,

Can you give us an example of one of the recipes you're using?

How much salt was added?
What size grinder plate? How many grinds?
How much water?
Any alcohol or acid?
What meat are you using?
Do you mix and stuff immediately?
Do you allow the sausages to rest before cooking?


:)
User avatar
SausageBoy
Registered Member
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:25 pm
Location: New York State

Postby Banjoe » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:42 am

Pretty simple recipe:

5 pounds boned pork shoulder, 80% lean is about perfect
2 tablespoons cracked fennel
1 tablespoon salt
1 tablespoon fresh fine ground black pepper
1 tablespoon granulated garlic
4 tablespoons crushed red pepper flakes
1 cup ice water

Ground it once with course plate, mixed in spices and water, reground immediately with finer plate and stuffing tube on grinder. Eager to see how things turned out so straight from the stuffer to the frying pan.

It's pretty clear that I need a good shot of magic meat glue to pull these critters together.
User avatar
Banjoe
Registered Member
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: Winnipeg

Postby larry » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:28 pm

Banjoe: Just before you stuffed, was the mix a pasty, sticky mix, or did it just look like ground burger meat? It should be like... it's hard to come up with an analogy, but like meatball mix after you put in eggs and bread crumbs. One other thing I do that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that after I stuff, during the process of making links, I prick each link, then squeeze the ends to get rid of air, examine each link close up, prick all visible air bubbles, and squeeze again to tighten the mix up inside the casing. This usually results in an inch or two of empty casing between links, since I stuff with a kitchenaid, and not a true stuffer. I usually tie the links off with string to keep them tight. But that's the last real variable, without seeing the answers to sausageboy's questions.
larry
Registered Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Location: NE U.S.

Postby larry » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:36 pm

Oops. I just realized you did answer Sausageboy's questions. The mixing portion of the process should be mixing like you would mix cake batter, that is, a real, vigorous mix, not just a folding in, or light combining. You need to change the texture of the meat from ground to this sticky mass that we seem to have trouble describing. That is the process where the protien in the meat changes and begins to bind with the fat (scientists, tell me if I'm botching this up). If your last step is through a grinder, you may need another mix. And you do need to keep everything cold. I recently got an instant read thermometer that I stick directly in the mix periodically during mixing to keep tabs on temps. Things really should stay in the low to mid 50 degree F range or lower. If things are getting too warm even with ice water, you could try crushed ice, which is what I use when doing emsulfied things like mortadella. crushed ice tends to keep the temp of the mix down in the 40s or even high 30s.
larry
Registered Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Location: NE U.S.

Next

Return to Sausage Making Techniques

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron