Pork Pies

[wallie]

I would like to know if its o/k to add a touch of bacon cure to the meat when making pork pies?
My pies taste good and look good till they are cut exposing the grey inside, my friends and family think the inside should look like the supermarket rubbish.
But I must admit pink does look more appetising the grey!
I remember many years ago contacting Lucas querying adding there Pokelsalz to meat for sausage and I think there reply suggested a rate of 1% of meat weight.
As I use Oddley's traditional bacon cure for my bacon at a rate of 40grams per kilo, I am thinking of adding about 30grams per kilo of chopped meat the day before making the pies.
What does the panel think?

Thanks
wallie

[johnfb]

I would always try for additive free if possible. If your family don't mind the grey colour then okay, but I have to say that if I served up grey meat to my lot they would not eat it, no matter how good it tasted.
The pinkish tint comes from additives and thats what our eyes are used to now so its all about appearance really... not taste.

I have an Indian cook book and the author states that she adds food colouring to the Chicken Tikka Masala recipe becasue if people see this dish in it natural state they will think it is not correct!

Perhaps the addition of some cure might help in the aesthetic appeal of the pie.

[Mike D]

I have the same problem as Wallie. The OH loves the pies I make, but she did comment on the colour...( what is it with wimmin' & colours ...sorry, just having to redecorate as the colour isn't "just right".. ....what does she want?? The ceiling of the Cistine Chapel??? )

I would prefer my pies pink, and did think about adding a bit of cure...but then thought against it due to the reason John stated.

I would be interested to find out tho' for future pork pie making sessions. I would like to get them more 'commercial' looking as it is what we are used to.



Cheers,


Mike.

[wallie]

In my last couple of pies I added a couple of mashed up anchovies I thought that might pinken things up but there was no noticeable difference.
They enhanced the taste though.
How about a touch of cochineal, anything decremental about that stuff?

wallie

[Paul Kribs]

Marvellous eh! Concensus from my local butcher is that the 'senior' citizens like their pork pies 'raised' and with proper 'grey' pork in them..

I must admit that some finely chopped bacon enhances my pies, along with a decent, tastey jelly top-up.

Regards, Paul Kribs

[johnfb]

In my last couple of pies I added a couple of mashed up anchovies I thought that might pinken things up but there was no noticeable difference.
They enhanced the taste though.
How about a touch of cochineal, anything decremental about that stuff?

wallie

Probably not...except that it comes from insects...

Cochineal is the name of both crimson or carmine dye and the cochineal insect (Dactylopius coccus), a scale insect in the suborder Sternorrhyncha, from which the dye is derived. There are other species in the genus Dactylopius which can be used to produce cochineal extract, but they are extremely difficult to distinguish from D. coccus, even for expert taxonomists, and the latter scientific name (and the use of the term "cochineal insect") is therefore commonly used when one is actually referring to other biological species. The primary biological distinctions between species are minor differences in host plant preferences, in addition to very different geographic distributions. D. coccus itself is native to tropical and subtropical South America and Mexico.

This type of insect, a primarily sessile parasite, lives on cacti from the genus Opuntia, feeding on moisture and nutrients in the cacti. The insect produces carminic acid which deters predation by other insects. Carminic acid can be extracted from the insect's body and eggs to make the dye. Cochineal is primarily used as a food colouring and for cosmetics.

After synthetic pigments and dyes such as alizarin were invented in the late 19th century, natural-dye production gradually diminished. Health concerns over artificial food additives, however, have renewed the popularity of cochineal dyes, and the increased demand has made cultivation of the insect profitable again.[1]



Tell the family that and maybe they will opt for the grey colour instead
John

[wallie]

Well Paul I reckon that I am a senior senior and I like a pink outlook.
Actually the last pies I made had 2/3 pork and 1/3 bacon and I simmered some cured trotters till it was concentrated for the jelly.
But I committed a cardinal sin and did not taste it before filling the pies and guess what, it was too salty.
Still we live and learn, anyhow they have since been demolished.
Yes John I know its beetles blood but what the heck! I will tell them its organic from South America.

wallie

[johnfb]

Well Paul I reckon that I am a senior senior and I like a pink outlook.
Actually the last pies I made had 2/3 pork and 1/3 bacon and I simmered some cured trotters till it was concentrated for the jelly.
But I committed a cardinal sin and did not taste it before filling the pies and guess what, it was too salty.
Still we live and learn, anyhow they have since been demolished.
Yes John I know its beetles blood but what the heck! I will tell them its organic from South America.

wallie

Yeah...all natural stuff in your pies.........

[Pork Pie Eyed Dolly]

I use chopped bacon in mine, chopped shoulder and mince. They go down a treat.

[wheels]

I'm finding this somewhat funny! As a boy from Leicestershire, the home of the Melton Mowbray Pork Pie -The King of Pies - I know that a pork pie is made from uncured pork, chopped, not minced; cooked 'freestanding', not in a tin.
Uncured pork ain't pink!

Havin' said that, them pies from Yorkshire with pink pork ain't half tasty!

Wallie, add whatever you want - but keep it to safe levels when messing with cure.

Phil

[saucisson]

The pinkness can come from anchovy essence, so you were on the right track with mashed up anchovy. It's very hard to find so anchovy paste may be as close as you can get. Other people have tried Lee and Perrins or chopped up bacon to introduce a touch of nitrate/nitrite. Oriental fish sauce has been suggested though I don't think anyone has tried it. And a small dose of cure will certainly work.

Experiment

Dave

[Mike D]

I put anchovy paste in my pies, and they still go grey...

I may try a touch of cure next time.


Cheers,


Mike.

[john clapham]

hi this may be abit late but as pork pies are very dear to my heart, pink or grey as long as there is enough natural gelitne made with trotters or hocks( not cured) ,and there is enough salt and pepper in the pie it will be good . the special part is the pastry wether hot or cold pastry mix. cold wwater for tins hot water for raised