sea salt + cure 1 in a brine?

[jjr-6]

Hi all,

I've always used just sea salt as a means of controlling botulism etc in my brine cures, but was recently convinced by the argument to use 'cure 1' also (I feel a certain amount of responsibility for the health of my hungry friends!).

Now then, I understand that sea salt naturally contains a certain small proportion of nitrates - this is why parma ham producers are able to leave out any additional preservatives (I think!?). So this begs the question...

If you are using 'cure 1' in a brine solution, is it safe to also use sea salt, or does this put you at risk of increasing the nitrate/nitrite content to an unacceptable level? Should I be using ordinary rock or table salt instead?

It's all very confusing. I hope someone can help.

Regards,

John.

[Oddley]

Welcome to the forum jjr-6.

I think you are right to use cure #1 in your brine cures as sea salt alone will not prevent botulism toxin.

The amounts of nitrate in sea salts are but trace elements and probably in the micro gram range. This will also depend on where the sea salt originated from.

As you know Parma type hams are quite salty therefore it is the large amounts of salt used and origin of salt plus long curing time that gives the cured look. What they don't tell you is quite a high percentage of Parma ham is thrown away for bone sour etc. That's why it is so expensive.

If your ppm's are worked out carefully, your curing times correct there in my opinion will be no problem with the few extra ppm added by sea salt.

If you are still worried you could also add sodium ascorbate at some time in the brining process at about 550 ppm research points to the fact that this when in contact with nitrite, will reduce nitrite to undetectable levels after about 20 days.

But this is not an excuse to whack in as much nitrite as you want. Sodium ascorbate will exhaust the same as any chemical. correct amounts of Nitrate/nitrites added at the correct time is definitely the way to go.

If you would like I can have a look at your brine recipe too see if there is any potential problems with it.

[jjr-6]

Many thanks Oddley!

While I've got the ear of an expert then , if I'm brining 2.4kg of boned-out, rolled shoulder pork, how should I work out the amount of cure 1 to use? I have been told to use 1 level tsp per 5lbs of meat - is this correct?

And do I continue to use the same amount of salt I previously used, or should I reduce the salt content when using cure 1 in the solution?

John.

[Oddley]

From your explanation I'm not quite sure I understand which chemical you are using. Are you using.

1. cure #1 ( If so what % nitrite to salt)
2. Saltpetre (Potassium Nitrate)
3 Cure #2 ( If so what % nitrite & nitrate to salt)

The amount of cure is dependent on the amount of water and other soluble ingredients you are using to work out the ppm of nitrite/nitrate I need total weight of the brine. Also do you intend to pump the meat if so at what % of meat weight. So please give the full recipe brine you are intending to use.

[aris]

For those who wanted to know what bone sour was:

Caused by bacteria that attack the interior of the meat when the meat temperature is allowed to rise above normal refrigeration. Occurs in dry cured, large cuts of meat because of the time required for the cure to reach the interior of the meat. Always keep meat refrigerated doing the entire curing period. You can also pump (inject) the cure into the meat to speed the curing process.

(from the AlliedKenco website).

Interesting - I saw a programme on TV a couple of weeks ago where they were dry curing hams here in the UK. They made a point of making an incision by the bone and adding cure (in this case it was Saltpetre) in that area.

[Oddley]

aris I have seen other methods of getting the cure around the bone and especially the knuckle joint. this was accomplished by pushing small amounts of curing salt down the bone with a long needle.

[jjr-6]

Oddley,

The recipe I like to use is from Fergus Henderson's book and makes 4 litres of brine:

400g sugar
600g sea salt
12 juniper berries
12 cloves
12 black peppercorns
3 bay leaves
4 litres water

I don't inject - just a simple immersion cure.

I've always adjusted the proportions according to the weight of meat, so if I'm using 50% more water (ie totalling 6 litres), I'll add 50% more salt (totalling 900g), sugar etc. I might be quite wrong in this though?

Thanks,
John.

[jjr-6]

Oh and it's the cure 1 that Franco sells.

John.

[aris]

aris I have seen other methods of getting the cure around the bone and especially the knuckle joint. this was accomplished by pushing small amounts of curing salt down the bone with a long needle.

The programme I saw they used what looked like a sharpening steel and inserted it along the bone. They then poured demerara sugar and saltpeter (roughly measured too I might add), and worked it around the bone using the steel for several minutes.

[Oddley]

John I'll work out the brine using the ingredients you have put down. I'll work the nitrite level out to 250 ppm this is a safe and reasonable level.

Anyway this is going to take a while, Because I'm doing it by hand. I'll try to finish it today but no promises.

aris that interesting it sounds very similar to what I have seen.

[jjr-6]

Oddley,

That's very kind of you, thanks very much.

By the way, the recipe suggests a 2kg joint of meat, where mine is 2.4kg.

Regards,

John.

[Oddley]

-conv-

[jjr-6]

Oddley,

You are very kind - this is very helpful. I'm surprised you think it will take 3 weeks though - even boned out? Do you have a formula for working out how long you should brine for, determined by thickness of cut?

I've always brined pork belly before, and 11 days seemed to work fine, so I guess the rolled collar would be twice the thickness - therefore twice the brining time?

Best,
John.

[Oddley]

John as I know it, rolled shoulder is strung or has a plastic net. It takes time for the brine to reach and cure the inside. This is very much through experience. I reckon unless vacuum packed, on 4 days per inch plus 2 days or 4 - 5 days per 1 lb.

[jjr-6]

That's great - thanks!

What are the signs of the curing process being incomplete then, in your experience? Is it the variation in colour and texture when you cut into the meat, or are there more definitive ways of checking everything's ok?

John.