Heston Blumenthal's Sausage and Mash Perfection

Introductions and chatter

Postby Ianinfrance » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:06 am

Hi,
georgebaker wrote:Hi
there is a problem with keeping rice hot enough - some sort of fungus cirrus ? grows on it. Apparently the mold is harmless but it excreets a toxic chemical.
George


Quite complicated. There's a bug called (as if naming it makes it somehow less frightening) Bacillus cereus. It's not a fungus or a mould, but a bacterium. The bacterium, as you say is not dangerous in itself, nor will it survive high temperatures, but like Clostridium Botulinum it can make endospores (seeds for a new generation inside its "body") which can survive quite high temperatures and - also like C.B. gives out a VERY powerful toxin.

As this bug, (Bacillus Cereus) is pretty well distributed, it is often present on rice. The spores survive the temperature of boiling water, so when you cook the rice, although you kill the bugs, you don't kill the seeds. When the rice is kept warm or even at room temperature for a long time, the spores can germinate, and the bugs multiply rapidly, creating their toxin as they do so. There are two variants. Google for Bacillus Cereus for their delightful symptoms.

How to prevent it? If you have left over cooked rice you will want to re-use, don't just leave it hanging around to cool slowly. The best bet is to heat it stinging hot in a microwave (which will kill any "hatched" bugs) and then cool fast - I spread it out on a large tray, where evaporation will cool it down to fridgeable temperatures in about 10 minutes.

If making rice from scratch to re use or to re-heat later, then again, cool it fast by spreading it out thin. I find this better than cooling in cold water, because you aren't wetting it.

Sorry to have highjacked the thread, but the subject came up!
All the best - Ian
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." c. 2800 BC
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Postby dougal » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:12 pm

saucisson wrote:Anyone know what temperature those slow cookers that were very popular (but I suspect rarely used) ran at?


My point was slightly lost.

Rice Cookers, after boiling, have a thermostatically controlled "keep hot" temperature.

Because of B Cereus, the "keep hot temperature" is *above* 65C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_cooker
But not much.
IIRC I measured the temperature my Lidl �9.99 Rice Cooker maintained, when I was searching for a means of holding a 'mash' at an incubating temerature of ~50C for many hours.
I've forgotten the detail of that wholemeal/wholegrain sourdough recipe (never did it), but seem to recall measuring my Rice Cooker at 70C.

70C is slightly hot for most of the sous vide stuff I've read of, but I think its cooler than most Slow Cookers.
Rice Cookers tend to be bigger than most slow cookers, and my guess is that, combined with an extra (over-riding) thermostat, one might well be able to use one as a Bain Marie or water bath to maintain a setting *below* 70C.
I don't really fancy sous vide experimentation, but cheese and other stuff (like some sourdoughs) want closely maintained intermediate temperatures for extended periods.

It has only just occurred to me :idea: that the Rice Cooker "keep hot" setting should be just about perfect for poaching ("boiling") Ham... :roll:
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Postby Oddley » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:24 pm

I've got a Burco boiler for brewing, this seems a perfect bit of kit for hams and sous vide experimentation. I personally can't be bothered with sous vide ATM, as I'm experimenting with lots of other stuff.

The thermostat is adjustable over the range by setting between the thermostat numbers checking with a thermometer.


Approx temp Knob setting
37�C (99�F) 1
55�C (131�F) 2
68�C (155�F) 3
82�C (180�F) 4
100�C (212�F) 5/6
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Postby saucisson » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:26 pm

Thanks Dougal, those were the lines I was thinking along, my "slow" cooker was an all in one electric fry pan, roaster and slow cooker etc. I may haul it back into service, especially after your ham suggestion!

I suspect Oddley's boiler would be perfect for a Christmas ham :D I now really regret getting rid of mine when I stopped home brewing for a while.

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Postby saucisson » Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:44 pm

I couldn't justify one on grounds of cost or space but wouldn't this be fantastic for those hams, with a 6.4 gallon capacity and complete temperature control:

http://www.tchibo.co.uk/is-bin/INTERSHO ... KU=0009591

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