Kippers...

[saucisson]

And at �32 for 5kg delivered direct from Robsons (which were Wohoki's link) not a bad price if you can't get to a Waitrose, who incidently would charge you �5 delivery.

Dave

[Wohoki]

Hi Dougal, I'm not a verbal swordsman either, and I appologise if I rubbed you up the wrong way: I did mis-read the closing paragraph of your post. All I wanted to say was that if folk want to eat rubbish they should be allowed to. I didn't think that I did call you names, or even disparage your opinions, but if I did it was unintentional.

There is no-one on this website that has asked how to make "nasty" sausages: it is the reason why we are here. Cheap supermarket bangers ARE nasty, but if someone wants a recipe then Porkerpete has said that he's prepared to post one, for fun.

My source for the definition of "kipper" was the OED, a book which has a certain reputation for knowing what words mean. It is still very much the case that smoked salmon is kippered, and the process is still refered to as such.

Who is "Davidson"?

And yes, we are arguing from the same side of the table, so take it easy.

[saucisson]

Alan Eaton Davidson, food historian and diplomat and writer of the Oxford Companion to Food.

[dougal]

Wohoki - no offence taken.

Who is "Davidson"?

Was, sadly.
Editor of the whopping Oxford Companion to Food, and author of the seminal works "North Atlantic Seafood" and "Mediterranean Seafood", as well as a few less well-known works. Retired Diplomat (Ambassador even). A scholar, perhaps the scholar, of seafood.

EDIT cross-posted with Saucisson, but left in place.

[saucisson]

Which of his works were you citing Dougal?

[Wohoki]

Mr Davidson is now on my reading list. (Available at Amazon UK, if anyone feels generous just PM me: I'd prefer the Ducasse, but..... )

I like it when folk get hot under the collar about food, and if more people did then there would be less rubbish in the shops. Peace, Dougal? No offence meant or recieved.


(Incidentally, I just checked kipper in the Larrousse Gastronomique, and it says that it is "more properly kippered herring", so I'll give you that one Dougal, as there is no mention of any fish other than herring. If it's Jesus, go to the Bible, if it's food, go to Larrousse....)

[dougal]

Which of his works were you citing Dougal?

The Companion. See under Herring and under Kipper.
North Atlantic has plenty of stuff about Herrings, but an uncharacteristic blind spot on the creation of Kippers.

[dougal]

Wohoki - no offence taken.

and, for the avoidance of doubt, none intended.

[saucisson]

Thanks Dougal!

Just out of interest, I found this on the website of the FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS:

The origin of the kipper
The word kipper probably derives from the Dutch k�ppen, meaning to spawn, and was first applied to out-of-season salmon which, because of their emaciated condition and lack of fat, were usually split and smoked to make them more palatable. As early as the fourteenth century there were references to the �kipper time� in connection with the Thames salmon fishery.

Kippered herrings of the kind we are familiar with today were probably first made in the first half of the nineteenth century; John Woodger of Seahouses in Northumberland is reported to have made kippers in the 1840s by rousing split herring in dry salt and then smoking them heavily for several days in a brick kiln.

Heavy salting and smoking were necessary then to prevent spoilage during distribution but improved transport facilities and the advent of refrigeration made these requirements no longer essential; the modern kipper is a lightly brined, lightly smoked product with a much shorter shelf life at room temperature and a mild smoky flavour.

Dave

[Rik vonTrense]

Well I put three pairs (six herring) in a vacu pak bag with 40gm of Prague no1 cure with some extra smoke powder..........

I found that splitting the herring down the backbone was not sao easy as it sounds and I finished up cutting off the heads behind the gills

I placed the cure on the inside surface of the cut fish and then placed
them another on top so I had the skins on the outside and placed them in a vacupak bag and by the time the air was drawn out they were already extruding water so I have been turning them over in the fridge all evening.

How long shall I keep them in the vacupak on this turning over basis.?? as now it is like they are sitting in a brine cure.


I think next time I will split them down the belly and remove the gut and just open them up along the back bone so that they lie flat.

.

[Paul Kribs]

Rik

Next time you do kippers, try splitting them thus.. Lay the fish on a board, insert a sharp knife about 1/8" - 1/4" up from the dorsal fin ( the large fin on the back) and it should pierce just above the backbone.. Insert it enough to go through the flesh but not right through the cavity for fear of breaking the belly.. You will easily cut through the rib bones, Then run the knife smartly towards the tail, turn the fish (or change position yourself) and draw the knife towards the head. You should be able to open the fish out with the tail still intact and half the head on each side. It would be a pretty difficult job to actually split the backbone, which is why it is done to one side of it.

Regards, Paul Kribs

[pokerpete]

Rik

Next time you do kippers, try splitting them thus.. Lay the fish on a board, insert a sharp knife about 1/8" - 1/4" up from the dorsal fin ( the large fin on the back) and it should pierce just above the backbone.. Insert it enough to go through the flesh but not right through the cavity for fear of breaking the belly.. You will easily cut through the rib bones, Then run the knife smartly towards the tail, turn the fish (or change position yourself) and draw the knife towards the head. You should be able to open the fish out with the tail still intact and half the head on each side. It would be a pretty difficult job to actually split the backbone, which is why it is done to one side of it.

Regards, Paul Kribs

Good advice Paul, that should help Rik no end.
BTW for fiddly jobs like that I use a Stanley knife. It's a useful tool, and great for scoring without blunting the tips of our precious knives.

[jenny_haddow]

Thanks for the Stanley knife tip that is a good idea for fiddly jobs that I would otherwise make a pigs ear of. (Why a pigs ear I wonder?!)

Jen

[Wohoki]

I keep a Stanley just for food work. Nothing beats it for scoring pork rind prior to a roast or for cutting tendons if you don't want the sound of a �50 knife hitting bone while you prep a leg of lamb. I actually use one of those snap-blade things that only cost a couple of quid. (I used to have a surgical scalpel but the blades are a tad pricey, and it looks a bit wierd in the knife case. Just a shade too Hannibal Lecter )

[Rik vonTrense]

When you say you made a pigs ear of it ..........that is just a reversal of making a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

I had to cut through the skull with scissors as my knife wouldn't cut is normally.....thats why I chopped off the head.


;.