Bacteria in curing

[saucisson]

Or microbiologists

[Wohoki]

By a somewhat odd coincidence my wife has a degree in biochemisty, which should be helpful. Sadly, she can't cook for toffee (10 years together and she can't make good coffee Guess who gets out of bed first.). However, if the kids can pick up on my passion for food and the Boss's abilities with microbes.......Who can say.

Good discussion, chaps. I've learned a lot.


(But I'm off to my cave with my wood-ash and some fleur-du-sel )

[saucisson]

What a small world, my wife has a degree in biochemistry too
Funnily enough she did her degree in Hampshire.

Dave

[Lee]

Or microbiologists

I wouldn't bother

[Oddley]

Thanks guy's I really enjoyed the discussion.

Vernon If you would like to increase your KNO3 to nearly 500 mg/kg I have worked it out for you. It's not exactly 500 mg/kg because I don't know if you have scales that are accurate enough. but IMO 498 mg/kg is near enough.

1 kg salt 12.4378 %
1 kg sugar 12.4378 %
6 ltr water 74.6269 %
40 g KNO3 0.4975 % (ingoing 498 mg/kg)

Total Brine Weight 8040 gm

[Vernon Smith]

Yes chaps, I agree, excellent discussion. I too have learned heaps. Thanks to all who have contributed so willingly. As Oddley says, we have lost all the old skills that stood the generations past in good stead (those that survived, that is) and we are having to reinvent the wheel almost. The brine tub in my grandfather's butchers shop never killed anyone and micrococci hadn't been heard of in his day. In my humble opinion the case for the prosecution, based on Lee's and Dave's evidence, corroborrated by Oddley's testimony, now rests. Halophillic micrococci are the culprits. These might not be truly psychrophillic but will at least be psychrotrophic converting NO3 to NO2 to NO at low pH and keeping us all alive. Phew!

Thanks Oddley for pointing out the 3 day time scale for pH to drop in fresh killed meat. This is important for me because I kill my own pigs and I could easily put something in cure too fresh although I don't think this has happened yet. Important to remember in future though. How does temperature effect the pH reduction? Ater slaughter I chill a carcass down to 0 deg C. This takes about 24 hours but doesn't freeze. I then butcher it over the next 24 hours, say, for joints, bacon, sausage and ham during which the temperature rises quite a bit I'd say to about 18 deg C. Curing usually starts on the third day but perhaps not quite 72 hours after slaughtering. Uncured joints then go in the freezer. I have just started some bacon and a ham so I will have to see how they turn out. Thanks too for the revised brine formula. I will certainly change to it next batch of curing I do. It's 22.40 hrs here now and I'm knackered so I'm for some shut-eye.
Regards,
Vernon

[Vernon Smith]

I've just woken up again. I forgot to ask Oddley about the 700mg to 1250mg/kg KNO3 you use in air dried meats. Does this include salami? I'm waiting for some stuff from Franco to try some and it would be nice to know. I assume you are referring to dry curing here so the 700mg and 1250mg are the amounts per kg of meat. Paul Kribs describes salami making on his web site and he uses 0.5g(500mg) per kg of pork shoulder. I'm hoping the difference between 500mg and 700mg is of no consequence.
Regards
Vernon

[Oddley]

Vernon the 700-1250 mg/kg was aimed at air dried ham etc. This is because I don't expect a fermentation of acid producing bacteria in the air dried ham. Therefore I have upped the KNO3 to act as a reservoir for nitrite to inhibit botulism.

Salami is a different proposition, without looking it up I think commercial makers use 120 mg/kg NaNO2 and 300 mg/kg KNO3. This is because they mostly use a lactic acid producing bacteria starter. The FDA recommend a ph of less than 4.6 for salami type meats.

So to be sure I can only recommend you use a lactic acid starter and 500 mg/kg of KN03.

I do know that traditionally in some parts of Italy they relied on natural bacteria and 1000 mg/kg of KN03.

[Vernon Smith]

I have been living dangerously for the past 3 days with the bacon I have in cure. I have been turning off my chilled cabinet at night so the temperature goes up to 12 deg for a few hours before returning to 8 deg for the day. I have turned the bacon over twice in that time and the increase in temperature hasn't had any detrimental effect at all. I'm not suggesting that 12 deg should be the benchmark but it certainly doesn't do the bacon any harm if a mistake is made whilst curing. I conclude the salt and KNO3 in the dry cure are working well. I will take it out for drying tomorrow which means I should have it ready for the smoker by Weds or Thurs.

All brine recipes refer to non-iodised salt being a must. I haven't been able to get it here to I have used iodised table salt without any obvious ill effect. Does anyone know why iodised seems to be such a no no? I would be pleased to find out. The question is now academic because I have found several 20kg bags of flossy salt in a warehouse used by a Vietnamese shark-fin merchant (the merchant is Vietnamese, not the sharks) and I can get as much as I want. I guess it can only be another small step in the right direction along up the curing highway.
Regards,
Vernon

[saucisson]

Some report anti-caking agents give a taste, maybe iodine is the same?