Fermented Air Dried Sausage

[johnfb]

The article is in the first post

[saucisson]

Thanks LD, that looks like an attic if I'm not mistaken How late into the year do you cure ie how warm?

Dave

[johnfb]

Thanks LD, that looks like an attic if I'm not mistaken How late into the year do you cure ie how warm?

Dave

I was just about to ask the same thing. What temp does it get in there??
Would it be worth putting a small fan in there to blow air around them for a couple of hours a day do you think???
Possibly this would keep the temp down too.

[Oddley]

Have I got it right Dave. You don't use any starter culture and you leave the sausages at whatever temp the room is?

[Iamarealbigdog]

Ok guys, some food science is needed here.

First you should be using cure #2 (I see you are), and really need a starter culture here. Once your tubes are stuffed you need to ferment the completed sausage at 80 (f) (26 c) with a RH of 60% for at lewast two days. I would consider adding smoke here, but it is not necessary with the starter culture.

Bring down the tempeture to 50 (f) (10 c) for two weeks to 8 weeks depending on thickness of your project.

Guys, I am a traditionalist as much as the next guy, but go with whats available.

[johnfb]

Ok, I know nothing about this area of sausage making and would never claim to, but what did the old folks do back in the old country is the last century?
They probably stuffed the skins with heavily salted pork and flavours and left them to hang outside with nature doing the business on temps and humidity. No science, no chemicals.
I guess the fact the Dave is still here posting would mean that he has never gotten sick and if he let's his kids eat it must be safe to eat.
Am I wrong on this?
I really want to try this, so the question is: what does the starter culture do that the leaving it out wont (sorry for that weird grammer ) ?


Bottom line questions are:

Will I get ill if i make this to Dave's instructions?

Dave, has your health been affected by this method?

Are we being too careful here with cultures and the like?

Hopefully this will turn into a good and infomative debate, so I, along with all the rest of us here can learn something about this part of sausage making.

[Iamarealbigdog]

not to say the traditional ways are bad, there are some very good things that come from doing things the tried and true methods. I have a prosciutto hanging that was just salt cured.

Where I am going with this is where there is an advantage to using starter cultures and cures then, one should strongly consider it. Nobody want's to make a bad product but all of us who have been doing this have had our shares of mould and had to bin several pounds of meat (kgs).

Curing and smoking and sausage making is an art as far as I am concerned. what works for some will not work for others and what you feel comftorabel with is your best guide.

I have gotten food poisoning from a sausage, not mine but from a sausage cart, it was pure hell and never again. This is one of the reasons I got into this hobby (obsession)

I would trust Dave's stuff and I would feel very comftorable eating it, would I do it his way, I don't know, might give it a try but not in bulk...

[Oddley]

I'm a belt and braces man. I would not make it Dave's way.

Here is what I think is happening. After the sausage is made, it is kept in the bacteria tempreture danger zone, the clostridium botulinum is inhibited by cure #2. Whilst there are other bacteria that produce toxins, these are by chance being out competed, by lactic acid producing bacteria until the sausage is dry enough to inhibit all bacteria.

If this, by what ever means does not happen, then the sausages could go very bad and be very nasty.

If I wanted too not use starter culture, I would add the cure#2, and leave the cubed meat in the fridge in a cracked lid box for about 3 days. If the PH was at or below 5, I would then know there was a natural bloom of lactic acid producing bacteria, therefore, would be safe to hang at a temp of 50-60� F until AW <=0.85.

[saucisson]

All good advice, from both of you (Iam and Oddley). What I have here is a small batch, relatively thin, fast dried product, more akin to sun dried jerky than a cold cured fermented traditional sausage. It's made cold, left overnight in fresh air in the dining room and then fast dries at between 20-26 deg C, often in the sunshine. It needs to be kept relatively thin or it wouldn't dry fast enough. I fully appreciate both your concerns, but this seems to work for me under the conditions stipulated. I wouldn't like anyone to randomly try it without a full appreciation of what is involved. At some point there must be a crossover between a fast dried jerky-like product (even if it is masquerading as a chorizo flavoured pepperami) and a properly cool cured European sausage. I wouldn't presume to push the boundaries too far, but believe my idea sits on the safe side. If anyone has any concerns, then I would urge you not to try it.

Dave

[Oddley]

Dave, I wouldn't presume to give you advise, but can I remark, that sun dried jerky is normally whole muscle meat. The surface of whole muscle meat might be contaminated, but normally the interior is sterile. Unlike minced meat where bacteria are spread throughout the meat.

That being said, I wish you well...

[saucisson]

Thank you Oddley, that's a good point. Would you have the same concern with meat you chopped yourself, or is it the introduction of external bacteria from any meat to the inside that is the worry here? If the consensus is I should cold cure for a few days before drying I have no problem with that, but my observations are that so long as you dry quickly it is not an issue.

Dave

[lemonD]

Dave,John.
Yes it's the attic, It was done in March and took 14 days for a 40% weight loss.
Avg temp was 11C, Avg humidity was 80%. The loft is draughty so has air movement however that messes around with humidity.
I covered the frame (kids old wardrobe) with a plastic decorating sheet and had a washing bowl of damp salt in there, mostly I left the front a 1/3rd open .
The one on the far right was the HFW cure-less salami recipe, much more white mould and again none on the smoked version.

LD

[johnfb]

Dave,John.
Yes it's the attic, It was done in March and took 14 days for a 40% weight loss.
Avg temp was 11C, Avg humidity was 80%. The loft is draughty so has air movement however that messes around with humidity.
I covered the frame (kids old wardrobe) with a plastic decorating sheet and had a washing bowl of damp salt in there, mostly I left the front a 1/3rd open .
The one on the far right was the HFW cure-less salami recipe, much more white mould and again none on the smoked version.

LD

What recipe did you use for the non-HFW ones??

[Oddley]

Dave if you are relying on jerky making techniques for your sausage, then the following links might be of some interest.


http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/foods/458-501/458-501.html
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Jer ... /index.asp
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/PDF/Compliance ... _Jerky.pdf

[saucisson]

Thanks Oddley,

Dave