Re-using brine

[gideon]

Can brine be re-used, if I were to brine a leg of pork for the recommended time, once it was ready could I re-use the brine for another leg or would I have to refresh any of the ingredients/flavours?.Having read J.Grigsons charcuterie & french cooking, she states that some bacon brines are re-usable and that some charcutiers use their brines endlessly.
Thanks,
Gideon.

[TJ Buffalo]

Hmmm, I have not tried brine curing, but I have flavor-brined pork chops and loins, for example, and the reading that I have done indicates that a brine should not be reused. The reasons given are that you are not only removing salt and other ingredients from the brine by using it (though these could be replaced, perhaps), but you are also introducing blood, meat proteins, and microorganisms into the brine. Just my two cents.

[gideon]

T.J,
Having given it some thought I think I'll err on the side of caution and use fresh brine every time. You make a good point about the micro-organisms and meat proteins etc.

[Wohoki]

I believe that large scale bacon producers re-use, but they check the specific gravity (ie, salt content) of the solutions between batches and they have access to lab tests for protien and microbe levels (which would cost us mortals as much as a huge bag of salt ) to tell them when to replace their brine.

[beardedwonder5]

There is an Alberta site (google "cure me") which states that a freshly made brine should be used straightaway. The wording is ambiguous, but the message is that as soon as you add the ingredients to water the cure starts "working" whether or not meat is present. Hmmm.

[wheels]

I am aware that many butchers keep a 'brine tub', but assume that the possibility to reuse brine only applies to brines made with Nitrate as Nitrite would 'exhaust' too quickly and become ineffective. This would be particularly true if Sodium Ascorbate or similar is being used as well when advice is that the brine should be used within 24 hours - pdf here.

I assume that when done commercially the salt/cure level is tested and adjusted.

Phil

[Ianinfrance]

Hi Phil

I assume that when done commercially the salt/cure level is tested and adjusted.

Iirc, that's what the blessed Jane says. I don't have the book to hand, but something about floating potatoes comes to mind. It's not rocket science, really because when curing in other ways, we have a pretty good idea of how much salt/sugar acceptably cured bacon/ham contains, don't we? So if the pork that's taken out is acceptably cured, then that's how much salt/sugar will have been removed and would therefore have to be replaced.

As for bugs and blood. If we bring the brine to the boil, the blood will coagulate and the bugs killed. Straining the brine would remove the clots, I'd have thought.

[wheels]

Ian

I am sure that what you say is correct - there may even be an argument for it, with saltpetre, in that the nitrate will already be partially converted to nitrite?

However, the amounts would still be 'guess-timates', so I won't be doing it personally.

[Ianinfrance]

Hi again Phil,

I've been thinking about this... (do I hear you groan all the way from the UK?)

I have read in several places that the tradition in old bacon factories was to increase the salinity by adding concentrated salt solutions. So the theoretical possibility has to be conceded, as indeed you do. However, as you say, there is a practical question of working out how much salt to add. The obvious answer for a chemist is to use a salinometer, but I don't know about you, but I don't happen to have one lying around. However. Consider. A salinometer measure density. Right? And in the context of what we're trying to do, all we need to keep track of is a change in density.

So..... Take a litre jug of brine before use and weigh it. Now, after taking out a couple of pork bellies as streaky bacon, we then take out the same jug's worth and weigh it. The weight will be reduced by pretty well exactly the amount of salt and sugar and nitrate that's been absorbed by the meat, won't it? So all one would have to do would be to dissolve that weight of cure times the number of litres in the brine in that litre of water and stir it in well. I reckon that would work pretty well. If the cure started growing things on the surface, I guess that would be a hint to change it!!

Seriously. I am sure that every three to six months or so, straining the brine into a large pot, bringing it to the boil, boiling 10 minutes and then after cooling, straining it back into the salting tub would kill any nasties and allow one to continue to reuse the brine for a while.

[wheels]

Ian

All that's fine - it would be even better if there was a way of knowing how much of the Nitrate had converted to unstable Nitrite etc.

You must work out answer that suits your circumstances, based on the risks as you see them.

I prefer to cure meat, in the knowledge of the maximum amount of cure going in. I may be classed by some as somewhat 'anal' by adopting this approach, but given the potential dangers, which may not manifest themselves for years, I feel I owe it, not necessarily to myself, but at least to my kids, to do it this way.

You were a chemist, so probably have a greater knowledge of the curing process than I do. I, and many others with far more experience than I have, including academics, professional and the people who sell cures, will continue to cure my way - which doesn't involve re-using cure.

Funnily enough, one of my major concerns is not having too much cure, it's having too little! Regrettably, I shall not be joining you in re-using cures.

Phil

[the chorizo kid]

as i recall, the quick and dirty way [the peasant way] of measuring the correct concentration of salt is to float an egg in the brine. when about a "dime size piece of shell" [18mm?] floats above the liqid level, all is well. i have doen this lots and lots of times when i brine pork loin, and it has always worked. i have done it with/without adding any nitrates and the results have been great. brine 2 weeks; dry 24 hours; smoke to taste.
however, unless it its boiled and filtered, i also would not be really comfortable re-using the brine.

[GaryP]

I worked in butchers shops in the UK during the 1970s. There was a 44 gallon brine tub kept in the chiller. Everything left over on Saturday that was joint size would go in the tub. Every morning it was my job to get all the meat from the brine tub (around 40 bits) and display them on plastic trays which were left on top of a chest freezer all day unchilled. At the end of the day it was put back in the brine until I retrieved it again the next day. Dont remember the brine ever being changed.......

Myself I use a premix brine which I place small bits of pork loin or belly or maybe a 1kg bit of leg in for a couple of days and reuse the brine for about a month. However now that I have joined this forum I am going to make my own brine rather than buying a premix. I have a salinimeter which I purchased from a butchers sundriesman here in NZ, the floating potato theory also works, I have never tested my brine between batches but will now as I had never thought of trying it......to reuse or not to resuse hmmmmmmmmm

[wheels]

GaryP

If that's what you want to do, that's your choice. I do worry about this statement though...

Myself I use a premix brine which I place small bits of pork loin or belly or maybe a 1kg bit of leg in for a couple of days and reuse the brine for about a month.

Do you know what's in the 'premix'? Nitrate may be OK for reuse. Nitrite based cures won't.

Brine tubs are usually based on saltpetre, for the reasons posted previously. I would not have any confidence re-using a Nitrite cure - all the scientific tests and advice are against it.

Phil

[GaryP]

Hi Phil

The premix I use is called Honeydew Cure N1010. Ingredients listed as follows in this order. Salt, Stabiliser(451), Sugar, Acidity Regulator(450)(331), Antioxidant (316),Preservative(250), Colour (122).

I have a small fridge that holds a 10 litre food grade bucket of brine that sits nicely and still leaves room for a few other things. I usually make a 5 litre brine (500g of mix) and use it for about 10 bits of meat weighing about a kilo over the course of a month or so. Ive got enough for about another 2 brines and now ive found this great forum I am going to try some homemade brines. Have just killed two pigs so ive got a fair bit of meat to play with.

[wheels]

GaryP

That appears to be a Nitrite cure (E250 = Sodium Nitrite). Nitrite reacts and exhausts quickly and so it is not recommended that the a brine is even made in advance when using it, let alone re-use it!

If you want to re-use brine (I wouldn't!) I would use a Saltpetre cure.

Phil