Saturated fat/polyunsaturated

[saucisson]

It's this stuff here:

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/Cures.html

Second item on the page.

Dave

[Big Dave]

Hi Dave and thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction, may I ask if using this would mean no extra salt is required? also would it come with instructions for amount to be added for varying weights of meat?

Regards

Dave

[wheels]

Youy would need to calculate and weigh the cure accurately and probably also add salt - if you post the recipe someone will advise amounts.

Phil

[Big Dave]

Hi Phil, dont know if this of any help, I normally work with 1kilo of pork whatever sausage recipes I make.

Throughout the book I have they refer to the same amont of salt in all which is about 8grms, I tend to add a little more for our taste, about 10/12 grms per kilo, with that in mind how would that relate to the amount of #1, and what effect would that have on the addition of total salt content of 10/12grms which I normally use.

Thanks again

Dave

[wheels]

Dave

I'd add 1g to 1.5g cure #1 per kg meat - keep the salt the same.

I'd probably try ascorbic acid (vit C powder from the chemists) first though (I guess that I would use maybe 0.2g per kg - but if you go down this route, ask again and I'll check it).

Let us know how you get on.

Phil

[Chuckwagon]

Hey guys,
If you want to keep meat pink before and during cooking, add soy protein concentrate. It is not salty and indeed, when it is included in hamburger recipes, it keeps the meat from shrinking - and browning! Commercially, corn syrup solids are added to assist in "searing" or browning qualities when soy protein concentrate is used. It is organic and safe but if more than 3% is used, it may throw the flavor off a bit.
Best wishes, Chuckwagon

[Big Dave]

Morning Phil morning chuckwagon, well guys thank you both for all your advice, with all the help I have had my sausages are getting better and better.

The last lot I made ( sundried tomato and garlic)for one of the few BBQ's we had this year due to the terrible summer we had, were polished off by all the grandchildren, grampies sausages have become a wow with them and the adults have to wrestle each other for the scraps.

Many thanks again, will let you know how I get on on the next batch

Regards

David

[Big Dave]

Hi Richard, glad to hear you had some nice weather, with regards to my query on the well known “Irish sausages manufacturer” and the low melting point fat which came out of them, the Brand which can be purchased from all shops and large supermarkets.

After reading your PM on the production method used for these, I have to say I am totally shocked, initially, I suspected lips, butts and other pork components would be a major ingredient plus some additional fat possibly from another pork production source, but to hear that MRM (Mechanically Recovered Meat) is still being produced and used in meat products for consumption by the general public, albeit under another name is disgraceful to say the least, If I remember correctly it was banned for extraction on Bovine carcasses due to BSE, but did the legislation cover MRM for other species such as pork?.

You mentioned that inclusion of the rind would also be a constituent part, may I ask if using the rind is normal practice in most production made sausages? Is it acceptable to use? would it be cooked before bowl chopping or would it be in its raw state? And how do they grind it up so fine?

I did have a chuckle when you advised the clever marketing strategy of the manufacturer where as you say there is no such thing as an Irish sausage, maybe that could also be described as misleading?

In conclusion, thank you very much for the info, there is one thing for sure! I will be avoiding that make of sausage like the plague from here on in and advising family and friends to do the same.


Many Thanks again



Big Dave

[sausagemaker]

Hi Big Dave

Just to clarify, All MRM has been banned, however the difference between MRM & Ground meat as it is now known is that meat tissues must remain (These did not in MRM) however the same machines are used to extract the meat more gently so as not to desroy all the tissue in other words its chunky MRM. I believe it was the supermarkets that twisted the arm of government to accept this product as meat & it is listed in the guidelines as pork 95Vl desinewed or chicken ground desinewed.
With regard to Beef I do not think anyone uses this any more due to its soft nature & dark colour.

Regards
Richard

[Big Dave]

Hi Richard, many thanks for the info clarifying the difference between MRM and ground meat !! Does not seem a huge difference between the two processes really does it!!

I read an article following our discussion where it stated that the cost difference between using non MRM and MRM recovered meat was significant, in fact 10 times more economic for MRM to be used in food especially Burgers and sausages, weight for weight the cost of MRM was 37pence opposed to £3.70 for non MRM meat.

I suppose when it come down to it, profit is god and the consumer comes in behind as long as they like the taste and buy the product, supermarkets like all businesses are only interested in one thing, profits for their investors, and I can imagine them twisting the arm of the government to retain that process, I do understand the reasoning behind profit & loss, but I do wonder where profit, consumer health implications and for me product quality meet, maybe they do not?.

What confuses me following our interesting discussion, I thought that if any type of mechanical removal of any meat was used or included in any product, chunky or not, that the manufacturer had to state this on the packet? I have not seen that on any meat product you buy in the shops, certainly none on the packet of sausages we have discussed recently, so obviously they do not have to declare it.

Anyway, thats it for now, many thanks again for your invaluable help

Big Dave

[Big Dave]

Hi Phil, I said I would let you know how I got on after your advice on using the cure for sausages, well have made a batch of cumberland type sausages using 1.5 grms of #1 cure per kilo, I have to say that the colour is a lot better, only a little bit pink, but on the whole looks a lot tastier with, rather than without.

As a matter of interest what is the upper safe level per kilo? I realise that there will be a limit, as like all cures it is toxic in quantity.

Looking forward to hearing from you

Many thanks

Dave

[wheels]

Dave

I am not 100% happy about using cure in a fresh sausage - I would far rather have them 'au natural' or try ascorbic acid, which is just Vitamin C, or similar .

That said, to answer your question, the maximum allowable in the UK commercially is 150mg per kg which equates to approx 2.5g per kg of cure #1 from the site shop. Time is maybe a factor in you not getting a good colour using 1.5g; if it is essential for you to have a good pink colour you could add the cure to the minced meat and mix well, leave it overnight in the fridge and then make the sausage the next day.

However, please consider the other alternative (s) (Vit C or 'nothing') first.

Phil

[Oddley]

I have got to say, I agree with wheels. I feed my sausages too my grandchildren, and there is a possibility that nitrites have an adverse effect with children ie: an increased risk of cancer etc.

I use in most of my sausages, ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

If you feel you absolutely need to use nitrite, it can be used to give the characteristic pink colour, at 50 mg/Kg, which is 0.85 g of this sites cure #1.

[sausagemaker]

Hi Dave

I must agree with both Wheels & Oddley on this one you would not normally put cure into a fresh sausage, infact it is illegal to put nitrite / nitrate into a seasoning pack.
We would use Ascorbic acid or a little colour, if your worried about using colours there are some natural ones around like beetroot.

Regards
Richard

[Big Dave]

Hi all, OK I take your point on the subject of cure in sausage seriously, may I ask how the butcher gets his to be that colour, would they use ascorbic acid ?

The reason I am trying to achieve the pink colour is not for myself but the damb grandchildren, they see shop bought sausages 90% of the time and think thats the way they should be, if they are not the same......well you can guess the result, we have to have standby shop rubbish ready.

If using cure is detremental and you guys do not reccomend its use, it goes in the bin along with what I have just produced.

Many thanks for the advice

Dave