photos of the lonzino I just finished

[wheels]

Matt

That's odd, I thought it would be the fennel that would be predominant given a usage of 2.7% of the meat.

Phil

[Richierich]

so I cannot put my finger on it, but I am unhappy with my spicing on this one. Something isn't right, and I think it is the juniper. The more I eat of it, the more it tastes like stale pee. Not that have eaten stale pee, but it tastes like it smells..

The more curing I do the more I start preferring just the most basic of cures, with little or no herbs and spices. Just pure porky goodness.

Scratch this recipe up to learning I guess.

When I did Parma style ham using the site-shop bought cure I thought there was a similar flavour, I made my own cure, following a recipe on here, which was based on the shop cure and the flavour was the same, the more I ate the more I noticed it. I put it down to the juniper, it was the only thing in my mind that could add such an aroma, only other things were salt, pepper and cures.

[Paul Kribs]

I agree with Richie about the juniper. It can be quite dominant. I used to use it in hams but didn't really like the flavour it imparted. I reduced the amount but it was still there, and still very noticable. I have never enjoyed gin either, so in my case I don't use juniper any more. The only other spice I don't much care for is caraway. Just personal taste really I suppose.

Regards, Paul Kribs

[tristar]

[quote="mattwright"]The more I eat of it, the more it tastes like stale pee. Not that have eaten stale pee, but it tastes like it smells..

quote]

Hi Matt, could the taste, or smell of stale pee, possibly be a trace of ammonia?

See this thread: http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=5947&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Regards,
Richard

[grisell]

[---]
The more curing I do the more I start preferring just the most basic of cures, with little or no herbs and spices. Just pure porky goodness.

I agree completely. I tried a few versions of pancetta and finally decided to use only salt and cure. I'm particularily 'not fond of' cinnamon and cloves. No matter how little I used, they dominated totally.

[grisell]

When I did Parma style ham using the site-shop bought cure I thought there was a similar flavour, I made my own cure, following a recipe on here, which was based on the shop cure and the flavour was the same, the more I ate the more I noticed it. I put it down to the juniper, it was the only thing in my mind that could add such an aroma, only other things were salt, pepper and cures.

I can't see why that cure is called "Parma style ham" if it contains spices. Sounds like delusive marketing to me. Parma ham isn't spiced at all; only salt is used. In the original version, not even cure is added.

[Richierich]

When I did Parma style ham using the site-shop bought cure I thought there was a similar flavour, I made my own cure, following a recipe on here, which was based on the shop cure and the flavour was the same, the more I ate the more I noticed it. I put it down to the juniper, it was the only thing in my mind that could add such an aroma, only other things were salt, pepper and cures.

I can't see why that cure is called "Parma style ham" if it contains spices. Sounds like delusive marketing to me. Parma ham isn't spiced at all; only salt is used. In the original version, not even cure is added.

From the shop pages

Ingredients:
Sea salt
Demerara sugar
Ground black pepper
Dried juniper berries
Garlic powder
Preservatives(Sodium Nitrate, Sodium Nitrite)

[Scotty2]

Matt, I'm not sure on the juniper. I go as high as .4% and don't usually find it to be overwhelming. As little bay as you used, that could be your culprit. I used .2% bay in a recipe not too long ago, reeked so heavily of bay it gave me a headache. That's just at .2%.

[wheels]

I can't see why that cure is called "Parma style ham" if it contains spices. Sounds like delusive marketing to me. Parma ham isn't spiced at all; only salt is used. In the original version, not even cure is added.

It just means that it's something that turns out as air-dried ham. For example, I could make duck breast 'in the style of' Parma Ham. It's just a way of saying that it's a cure for air-dried ham by using a term that people will understand. We tend not to take these terms literally.

HTH

Phil

[grisell]

I can't see why that cure is called "Parma style ham" if it contains spices. Sounds like delusive marketing to me. Parma ham isn't spiced at all; only salt is used. In the original version, not even cure is added.

It just means that it's something that turns out as air-dried ham. For example, I could make duck breast 'in the style of' Parma Ham. It's just a way of saying that it's a cure for air-dried ham by using a term that people will understand. We tend not to take these terms literally.

HTH

Phil

I understand, but why then add spices? As far as I know, none of the 'great' hams of the world, neither Prosciutto di Parma, Prosciutto di San Daniele, Jamón Serrano nor Jambon de Bayonne use any spices. Is it assumed that people use inferior meat and some kind of bad taste has to be concealed? Or is it a way to make money by intimating that there is something exotic with it when only salt+cure would do the job? No wonder people like Richierich get disappointed.

BTW, in Swedish we also use the term 'parmaskinka' = Parma ham to designate any kind of air-dried ham although nowadays the word 'prosciutto' is more common. (Which means just 'ham' and so one is as deceptive as the other).

[wheels]

It maybe that he and his family liked it better that way. You'll note that Franco's Parma Ham (style) cure also includes these spices.

Cure mixture, I sell an all in one ‘Parma Ham’ cure that has the right amount of cure and seasonings or you can make your
own using the following:
250 grammes Demerara sugar
350 grammes coarse sea salt
25 grammes cure 2 (alternative name Prague powder 2)
40 grammes coarse ground black pepper
10 grammes ground juniper berries
25 grammes ground garic powder
Total weight of cure is 700 grammes, this will cure 8 kilos of meat, ie use 87.5 grammes of cure per kilo of meat.

...and yes, I assume he has his business to make money. However, given that he has posted his recipe on a very large forum owned by a major TV celebrity, he's hardly "...make(ing) money by intimating that there is something exotic with it when only salt+cure would do the job", is he?

That you and I choose to make our own cures, doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be offered an easier option. That's what the shop's ready made cures do. Judging by their popularity, they're doing a good job.

If it still concerns you, you'd be best to take it up with Franco direct.

Phil

[grisell]

Sure. Everyone has his own preferences, but I can understand that some get disappointed when it doesn't taste like expected. After all, a dried ham is about a year of tense waiting and expectations. I still don't criticize the decision to use spices. It's the designation Parma Style I'm against. As you say, it can be read either literally as 'ham from Parma' or more commonly as 'air-dried ham'. That ambiguity could be avoided if it were called 'Air dried ham à la Franco' or something. Maybe 'Franco' has a bad tone in some European countries, though ( ). I can imagine that some think I'm semantically over-zealous here, but I'm strongly against all kinds of false or unclear marketing, no matter where they occur. I see that as sort of my mission. Hence my reaction. I hope no one takes offense.

I use to cheat a little, too, mixing in about 15% white sugar in the cure.

[grisell]

[---]
...and yes, I assume he has his business to make money.
[---]

Phil

- which is why this forum is so great as a contrast!

[grisell]

Only now do I realize that Franco is an active member and our site admin. So, hope you take my criticism the right way, Franco. Nothing personal, just business.

[quietwatersfarm]

I find that Juniper doesnt tend to taint the flavour much at all with either Hams or Lonzino unless its really overdone (and you have to go some to achieve that!)

Personally I find something zippy really helps Lonzino as otherwise I find the flavours a little bland on such a lean cut.

Scott, I use a fair bit of ground orange and/or lemon zest, Lemongrass and also one with a wild mint. These all give a lovely finish surrounding the meats natural flavour.