Riley's Traditional Sausages

[DanMcG]

All of the above!

[wheels]

...Ive looked at the ingredients and think the recipe may resemble
Pork 46% water 24% rusk 17% herb and spice mix 2.5% 0,5% odds and sods. Bit worried about the pea powder at the end.That stuff will soak up 10 times its own weight in liquid

Given that most commercial mixes are designed to be used @ 2.5% weight of sausage and the salt is probably 1.3% we are left with 1.2% for the rest.Including (as this is a commercial mix) the preservatives.)
So Marjoram, white pepper a pinch of spice mix and a herb mix(predominately sage) My thoughts on the celery is that its maybe celery salt so included in the salt figure.

I agree with Jim on this - although I think he has omitted mentioning the pork fat and rind which will form the balance of the %.

Let's take the declaration:

Pork 46%, Water, Rusk (Wheat Flour, Salt, Raising Agent: Ammonium Carbonate), Pork Fat, Pork Rinds, Seasoning (Salt, White Pepper, Marjoram, Ground Spices, Herbs, Preservatives: Sodium Metabisulphite, Stabiliser: Diphosphate, Antioxidants: Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid), Pea Flour, Beef Protein Casing.

Here's my logic:
If the sausage is actually 46% pork, i.e. if there is actually 46g pork in each 100g, then the pork must be 80/20VL or better. At less than 80/20VL only a certain % of the weight counts. Now the pork could be rubbish stuff, if it's only 65%VL for example you'd need 55g pork in every 100g sausage to get a 46% declaration. Weird init!
Ah, but the level of fat declared (16.3g/per 100g) indicates that the 46g is near the mark (I think) - so 46% pork it is.

We know the salt is 1.3% and that the total seasonings are the salt, seasoning and chemicals. We know that the salt and seasonings will be about 2.5% and that the usage rate of phosphate is 0.8% (if it's the same as from the site shop), allow a bit for the other chemicals and that's around 3.5%.

This leaves 50.5% to fill with water, rusk, pork fat and rind, and pea protein.

We know that the fat in the sausage is 16.3% but that's actual fat from analysis, not just stuff that looks like fat. Assuming that our 46% 80/20 VL meat is about 25% to 28% fat (there's fat in it that isn't visible) that would be 11.5g to 12.8g fat in every 100g sausage, 11.5% to 12.8%, leaving a maximum of 4.8% for fat in the pork fat and rind. Pork fat we aretold by Parson Snows is 78.6% fat and Pork Rinds appear to be 33% fat if this site is correct. The pork rind has to be less weight than the fat. About 4.55% Pork Fat and 4.45% Pork Rind (in terms of ingredients rather than analysis) added to the pork will be in the ballpark of the fat analysis figure. I've tried to maximise the rind as this has a high PH and therefore better water holding properties.

We've now got 58.5% of the sausage, the other 41.5% must be the water and fillers.

We know that the pea protein holds a good lot of water and is less than the 3.5% seasoning (The declaration's a bit naughty IMO to lump so many ingredients together as seasonings - it doesn't help us at all!). I'd err on it being on the higher side than Jim has but it's anyone's guess. I'd juggle the pea flour between 0.5% and 2.5% with 3 times it's weight in water and make up the balance with rusk at 1.5 times its weight in water. One option of this would be: 2.5% Pea, 12.5% rusk and 26.5% water (3 x 2.5) + (1.5 x 12.5) ish! Jim knows more about pea protein than I do though so I'd defer to him on this.

As to the herbs/spices I'm afraid that I don't agree with those who say to use the Lincolnshire mix as a start; I don't know of any cheap sausage like this that's so highly spiced as that Lincolnshire. I'd go for a milder breakfast sausage spicing with the marjoram added and just a smidgen of sage. I'm surprised given the price that the herb/spices aren't 'essences' or whatever they call the artificial ones, but even so can't see them spending a lot on the spicing of a £1/lb sausage! Where the celery comes in? I haven't a clue!

All this said, you could write on a cigarette paper what I know about food labeling, or formulating these cheap sausage for that matter, but that's how my brain sees it anyway!

Phil

[vagreys]

Thanks, Phil. We've backed into some pretty good sausages from labels like this, before. Thanks for the analysis.

I'll be making some Lincolnshire Gold sausages, regardless. I think I'm still going to try to formulate a higher quality version of what the girls, liked, though.

I look forward to Jim's (and others') thoughts on this.

[saucisson]

I'll probably cut one open today in my Microbiological Quarantine Chamber and see if I can detect what's in it

[BriCan]

Let's take the declaration:

Pork 46%, Water, Rusk (Wheat Flour, Salt, Raising Agent: Ammonium Carbonate), Pork Fat, Pork Rinds, Seasoning (Salt, White Pepper, Marjoram, Ground Spices, Herbs, Preservatives: Sodium Metabisulphite, Stabiliser: Diphosphate, Antioxidants: Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid), Pea Flour, Beef Protein Casing.

Here's my logic:
If the sausage is actually 46% pork, i.e. if there is actually 46g pork in each 100g,
Phil

Dumb question, but what is the protein content per 100 gm

[saucisson]

14.7g per 100g or 5.88g per (34g) sausage. Which confuses me somewhat.

[BriCan]

14.7g per 100g or 5.88g per (34g) sausage. Which confuses me somewhat.

The dumb remark was to get people thinking.

If we look at http://www.rileysausage.co.uk/ and look at there nutrition lable foe Manchester we see 9.4% protien per 100 gm

As some might remember I am still in the trade, albeit wholesale there are a few things that I have to do --- Nutrition lableing is one of them

If only we could educate the public to read them proper like then you might/will see a big way in buying

Protien = meat content

my lable for Manchester sausage

Manchester Sausage
Lean Ground Pork Rusk Spices Salt Lean porc haché Biscotte Épices Sal Keep Frozen/Garder congelé
Nutrition Facts per100g
Valeur Nutritive par100g
Amount %Daily Value
Teneur % Valeur Quotidienne
Calories/Calories 161
Fat/Lipides 5g 8%
Saturated/Saturée 2g 10%
+Trans/Trans 0g 0g
Cholesterol/Cholestérol 53mg
Sodium/Sodium 440mg 18%
Carbohydrate/Glucides 1g 0%
Fiber/Fibres 0g 0%
Sugar/Sucres 0g
Protein/Protéines 21g
Vitamin A/Vitamine A 0%
Vitamin C/ Vitamine C 0%
Calcium/ Calcium 1%
Iron/Fer 8%


Notice the differance on protien

I'll go back to chewing the fat

[wheels]

Robert

I ain't got my thinking head on today, so smack me round the earhole with what you mean please! Are you saying that 14.7gm/100gm (14.7%) protein is way too high for a sausage declared at 46% pork (even with any protein in the pork fat, pork rind and pea flour declared elsewhere)?

Phil

[BriCan]

Robert

I ain't got my thinking head on today, so smack me round the earhole with what you mean please! Are you saying that 14.7gm/100gm (14.7%) protein is way too high for a sausage declared at 46% pork (even with any protein in the pork fat, pork rind and pea flour declared elsewhere)?

Phil

Where are you pulling that number from

[saucisson]

It's on the packet of Riley's Traditional Sausages, what I have in my sweaty palms

[BriCan]

Ok,

I do not have a package in front ov me, so cannot read nutritional label -- but going by there site all there sausage has 9.4% protein

as said -- protein = meat the higher the number the higher the protein number is 29% in the very top end

The label I posted is for

26 lbs pork 80/20
500 gm Rusk
250 gm spice

the calculations work out to 21% protein

What I am saying is that the protein number will always tell you how much real meat there is in the product

Its how they word things in the trade -- the gray area

[salumi512]

That makes me curious. Is listed protein always from meat? If you use soy or some other vegetable protein, does it not contribute to the protein on the labeling?

[saucisson]

Ok,

I do not have a package in front ov me, so cannot read nutritional label -- but going by there site all there sausage has 9.4% protein

as said -- protein = meat the higher the number the higher the protein number is 29% in the very top end

The label I posted is for

26 lbs pork 80/20
500 gm Rusk
250 gm spice

the calculations work out to 21% protein

What I am saying is that the protein number will always tell you how much real meat there is in the product

Its how they word things in the trade -- the gray area

The sausages on the site are from their premium range, the traditional sausage is a budget sausage only costing 10 pence per sausage.

[saucisson]

Well there's definitely mace and nutmeg in there and enough white pepper to make a vindaloo curry I think there's coarse ground black pepper too. They were very clammy and although I was expecting a fine emulsion when I skinned one they are quite coarse in texture. The rinds have been ground up into a 1mm cubic dice, so not that obvious, and not that much of it. Individual bits of fat, and unidentifiable bits of lean meat. When I say say coarse I don't mean a coarse ground sausagemeat, I mean you can identify bits in the emulsion

[BriCan]

Ok,

I do not have a package in front ov me, so cannot read nutritional label -- but going by there site all there sausage has 9.4% protein

as said -- protein = meat the higher the number the higher the protein number is 29% in the very top end

The label I posted is for

26 lbs pork 80/20
500 gm Rusk
250 gm spice

the calculations work out to 21% protein

What I am saying is that the protein number will always tell you how much real meat there is in the product

Its how they word things in the trade -- the gray area

The sausages on the site are from their premium range, the traditional sausage is a budget sausage only costing 10 pence per sausage.

then where's the meat