ISO: Oddley

Air dried cured meat and salami recipes

ISO: Oddley

Postby deb » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:42 pm

Sorry Oddley me and my silly questions again.

I'm going to be curing a small piece of pork to make a ham for Christmas using your Wiltshire cure (below). I've got a bit of a question though. I was under the impression that a meat product which is going to be cooked only needs Cure#1 OR Saltpetre, not both (or cure#2, as I saw you calculated using this for someone else). Why does your cure have both? Is it possible to use saltpetre on it's own as this is all I have at the moment (if not I will buy either cure#1 or #2)?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this, I'm raring to go.

Wiltshire cure ham wet method

Enough for 6.5 kg

Treacle 156 gm
Salt 156 gm
Black Pepper 5 gm
Beer 440 gm (440 ml Can of Beer)
Cure #1 20 gm (151 ppm Nitrite Ingoing)
Saltpetre 2 gm (257 ppm Nitrate Ingoing)
10 Juniper Berries

Weight of brine = 779 gm

Method

The beer flavor in this cure really comes through so choose a beer you like. Heat beer to boiling point .Then add salt, treacle and black pepper. Simmer for about 10 minutes. Remove from heat, let cool down add Cure#1 and Saltpetre. Weigh the brine and with preboiled water bring up to 779 gm. Now add the Juniper berries. Put meat and cure into a suitable container (non corrosive) and turn meat in the brine. Leave meat in brine, in the bottom of the fridge, for 5 days per 500 gm or no less than 14 days Turning every day.
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Postby Oddley » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:29 am

Hi deb your question about cure#1 is a valid one. Nitrite is a very reactive chemical in contact with certain bacteria will change it quite quickly, upto 50% in the first 24 hours. As 100 ppm is needed to slow the botulism bacteria I like to use nitrate as a supply of nitrite. The nitrite in the combination cure will give an immediate protection from botulism by slowing the bacteria.

I use cure#1 and saltpetre so I don't have to buy cure #2 and I have more control over the nitrate content.

I have done the recipe in saltpetre alone and with cure#2 so you can choose.


Remember this is a wet method, so the meat might not be covered, so must be turned every day.
Last edited by Oddley on Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby deb » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:51 pm

Thanks very much Oddley.

As I have Saltpetre only to hand I'll use this.

You are far too helpful to me really, if I could only get to grips with this nitrate/nitrite business your life would be so much easier :wink:

Thanks again for this.
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Postby markh » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:04 pm

Hi. Oddley, I have been using cure #1 and saltpetre as an alternative to cure #2, it has just occurred to me that I have been using it at a quoted rate of '6.25% Nitrite to 4% nitrate' but based on the overall weight i.e 4g of saltpetre to 96 g of cure #1 (I realise its not accurate for #2 but fairly close!)
Should it be based on just the nitrate content, Sodium Nitrate or potassium nitrate? or does it not matter that much?
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Postby Oddley » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:28 pm

Hi markh

I'm not really sure I understand your question. Sodium nitrate according to Franco's supplier is somewhere around 50% stronger than potassium nitrate, (please excuse the estimates if you want the exact figures I'll try to find them for you) this does not work out mathematically or in any other sense.

I believe sodium nitrate is some 20% stronger than potassium nitrate because of it's molecular weight. I don't like cure#2 as it restricts the amount of nitrate I can use, (as I like to stick within the FSA rules. I believe they know more about the subject than I do, or I do until I can prove them wrong.) To get the reservoir of nitrite I require I have to use potassium nitrate, in conjunction with sodium nitrite.

I have not seen any evidence that sodium nitrate is superior to potassium nitrate in any respect. it is still used in all the commercial bacons that I've seen.

As a general rule I like my total nitrates/nitrite too add up to about 500 ppm of potassium nitrate, for meats being cured for about 4-6 weeks but not air dried. For air dried over 6 weeks I like it to add up to about 1000 ppm potassium Nitrate. As this is a general rule it is not always the case, I like to take it on a cure by cure basis.
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Postby markh » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:44 pm

Sorry Oddley, the perils of posting after imbibing I'm afraid. :) I think you answered my query anyway.

I should increase the Saltpetre ratio by about 20% to about 4.75% to give an equivalent Nitrate concentration to cure#2
e.g: Based on the ratios given here http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/Tips.htm#Curing%20Salts
To follow a recipe that uses cure#2
If weight of cure#2 required by recipe is 100g

Can use 100g of cure#1 (giving 6.25g Sodium Nitrite) plus 4.75g of saltpetre[Potassium Nitrate] (equivalent to 4g of Sodium Nitrate) and reduce additional salt by 4 to 5g

Is that right?
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Postby Oddley » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:39 pm

Hi markh

Franco's Cure #1 & Cure #2 differ from the one stated on Len's site. Here is a breakdown of Franco's cures.


Prague 1
1 pound salt, 1 ounce sodium nitrite

Nitrite = 5.8824 % nitrite = 129.685 ppm at 1 gm per 1lb meat

Nitrite = 5.8824 % nitrite = 58.824 ppm at 1 gm per 1 kg meat
************************************************************
Prague 2
1 pound salt, 1 ounce sodium nitrite, 0.64 ounce sodium nitrate.

Nitrite = 5.6689% = 124.978 ppm at 1 gm per 1lb meat
Nitrate = 3.6281% = 79.986 ppm at 1 gm per 1lb meat

Nitrite = 5.6689% = 56.689 ppm at 1 gm per 1 kg meat
Nitrate = 3.6281% = 36.281 ppm at 1 gm per 1 kg meat


The correct figure for conversion from sodium nitrate to potassium nitrate is: 18.95239% So I think we can say use, 19% more potassium nitrate than sodium nitrate.
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Postby markh » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:36 pm

Thanks for the info Oddley
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Postby deb » Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:12 pm

Oddley, do I take it from this part of your message........

[quote="Oddley"]Hi markh

Franco's Cure #1 & Cure #2 differ from the one stated on Len's site..
/quote]

......that if I were to make something using Len Poli's recipes which contain cure #1 or 2 I would not be able to use Franco's cures at the rate shown in the recipe?

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks.
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Postby Oddley » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:44 pm

Hi deb

As I said to markh, the amount of nitrates in Franco's cure is less than on Len's site.

Therefore to get the same result, you would have to use slightly more of Franco's cures.
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Postby deb » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:58 am

Thanks Oddley.

Any simple way of working out how much more?
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Postby Oddley » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:45 am

Hi deb

I have worked out a simple way of converting Franco's cures to the ones on Len poli's site. I won't go into the boring maths but will say it's pretty accurate.


To convert Franco's cure #1 to the American cure #1 containing 6.25% Nitrite.

Multiply Franco's cure #1 by 1.0625

Example: If the Len Poli's recipe needs 32 gm of cure #1 then the amount of Franco's cure #1 to use is:

Franco's Cure #1 = 32 * 1.0625 = 34 gm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To convert Franco's cure #2 to the American cure #2 containing 6.25% Nitrite & 4% Nitrate.

Multiply Franco's cure #2 by 1.1025

Example: If the Len Poli's recipe needs 20 gm of cure #2 then the amount of Franco's cure #2 to use is:

Franco's Cure #2 = 20 * 1.1025 = 22.05 gm
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Postby deb » Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:01 pm

Thank you very much Oddley.

I will copy this for future use.
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Postby aris » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:51 pm

I wonder why there is a difference between Franco's (and I assume european) and US cures. I thought the whole point behind cure#1/#2 was to standardise for recipes.
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Postby Spuddy » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:52 pm

Me too.
Maybe Franco can answer this?
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