Oddley

[deb]

Is it possible, when you have time, to try and explain, in simple terms as my maths is not good (and that's being kind), how to work out how much cure (#1, #2 and saltpetre) should be used when curing. It would stop me having to ask you every time I want to cure something.

If you don't have the time or inclination please say, I won't be offended, it's a big ask.

Thanks.

[Oddley]

Deb all the cures post are mathematically worked out. I will give you the basic formulas. But it is really a case of being able to do maths.

I don't think I can give you all the info that I have learnt over the course of a year or more in a couple of posts. If you really want to learn you will have to trawl the forum, all the info is there.

To start with I normally use the equivalent of 300 - 500 milligram per kilogram of saltpetre on a sliding scale from 1-4 weeks cure. After that on a sliding scale 500-1000 mg/kg from 4 weeks upwards.

Saltpetre is the equivalent of sodium nitrite multiplied by 1.4653648. It is not a good idea to go over about 200 ppm or mg/kg of nitrite, as above these levels it is not really interchangeable with saltpetre.

Remember though that cure #1 is a mixture of salt and nitrite.

For finding out how much cure #1 to use. consider the following formula

------------------------------PPM or mg/kg * 100 * 100 * Weight of Brine
Grams Premixed Cure = -------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------% Nitrite in mix * % Pump * 1000000

To check the amount of nitrite in the brine in ppm or mg/kg then.

---------------------grams premixed cure * % Nitrite in mix * % Pump * 1000000
PPM or mg/kg = -----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------100 *100 * Weight of Brine

To find out how much saltpetre in a brine to use.

------------------------------PPM or mg/kg * 100 * Weight of Brine
Grams Saltpetre = -------------------------------------------------
------------------------------- % Pump * 1000000

To check the amount of saltpetre in the brine in ppm or mg/kg then.

---------------------------grams saltpetre * % Pump * 1000000
PPM or mg/kg = -----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------100 * Weight of Brine

I hope this has helped.

[deb]

Thanks Oddley.

I'm a bit short of time at the moment (about to put up the christmas decorations) but will try and get to grips with it later.

[Oddley]

deb these formula are really the crux of the matter, with the other info it gives a basic way of designing you own cure, or converting one. If you can get hold of the formula's then you will have it cracked, because once you have done them a few times you will see how changing one thing means you have to change everything else. This is not vital the vital thing is, you know how much nitrate/nitrite you have in the brine if you can work out these formula, you can check this at any time.

If you have questions please ask.

[thostorey]

This is what I've been told Deb. I don't have a lot of background in all of this so take it for what it's worth. HTH


Prague Powder #1~ Insta Cure or Modern Cure.
This cure contains sodium nitrite (6.25%) mixed with salt (93.75%). Consumers are recommended to use 1 oz. for every 25 lb. of meat or one level teaspoon of cure for 5 lb. of meat.
Prague Powder #2
This mix is used for dry cured meats that require long (weeks to months) cures. It contains 1 oz. of sodium nitrite and 0.64 oz. of sodium nitrate. It is recommended that this cure be combined with each 1 lb. of salt and for products that do not require cooking, smoking, or refrigeration. This cure, which contains sodium nitrate, acts like a time-release cure, slowly breaking down into sodium nitrite, then into nitric oxide. The manufacturer recommends using 1 oz. of cure for 25 lbs. of meat or one level teaspoon of cure for 5 lbs. of meat.

[Oddley]

Hi thostorey
It looks like you have copied that info from the allied kenco site. I hope you will agree that the info you have posted has been discredited after reading the link below.

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... 3&start=15

The info stated is very simplified anyway. For Example how long will Nitrate act as a reservoir for nitrite. How long is it before nitrite becomes ineffective due to conversion to nitric oxide and other components. What is the effective minimum ppm of nitrite, it just goes on. I think all these topics have been discussed on this forum. Not even the scientists know much about this subject. There have been a few that have been members here. It is not an easy subject. If it were I would not be interested in it. No Offence meant...

[thostorey]

No Oddley, I was not aware of that! Thanks for the heads-up. I did pick-up that little gem while I was surfing and saved it for 'future' reference Too bad because it was easily understood.

Cannot the last statement of both Cure # 1 and 2 instructions provide by Allied Kenco be corrected to provide direction on 'how much' or each cure is required? Then people like Deb and me would not have to remove our shoes to compute the quantity of ingredients.

[Oddley]

Hi thostorey

I have not found one size fits all a very satisfactory solution. I have not worked out the PPM for the suggested amounts on Allied Kenco but they are probably ok, for curing bacon and for fresh sausage etc. But may or may not be ok for air dried ham etc.

The amounts given would certainly not be anywhere near the right amount to use in a brine, which is what we are discussing here.

[thostorey]

By now someone must have worked out the quantity of cure to be added to a given quantity of brine to cure a given weight of meat or the quantity of cure to apply to air dry a given weight of ham or other meat? I can't see why the amount of cure would be influenced by anything other than the volume of brine or the weight of the meat and I can't see why it would change between batches? This is of course assuming all the other variables, like the potency of the cure, the temperature and time, remain constant. What am I missing here?

Thanks for any enlightenment

[Oddley]

As far as brine cures go have a look at the formula at the top you will see that if you change one variable all the others change.

If you or deb have Microsoft Excel, I have just finished writing a spread sheet in visual basic for applications, that works out brines very accurately. If you or anybody else wants it just say.

I think you have got to the nub of the matter with these questions. With all the variables you have suggested add, meat PH and bacterial load. If you think about it bearing in mind all these variables, you will see the problem.

This is a huge can of worms, that has taken over a year for me to come to grips with and understand the little I do. If you are interested then look through mine and Parson snows conversations on the matter.

There is someone who gives the amounts too use, in the US it is the USFDA in Britain it is the FSA. here is the FSA rules on the matter.

Under Schedule 2 Part C of the above Regulations, Potassium Nitrite (E249)and Sodium Nitrite (E250) are permitted in the following foods at the following maximum indicative and residual amounts: non-heat treated, cured,dried meat products at a maximum level of 150mg/kg (indicative) and 50mg/kg(residual), other cured meat products canned meat products Foie gras, foiegras entier, blocs de foie gras at a maximum level of 150mg/kg (indicative)and 100mg/kg (residual) and cured bacon at a maximum level of 175mg/kg(residual).

Sodium Nitrate (E251) and Potassium Nitrate (E252) is permitted in the
following foods at the following maximum indicative and residual amounts:cured meat products, canned meat products at a maximum level of 300mg/kg (indicative) and 250mg/kg (residual).

[unclejoes96]

Oddley

I would be very interested in your spreadsheet, then hopefully I might begin to understand a little.

Dave

[Oddley]

unclejoes96

PM sent.

[thostorey]

Oddley, I'd like a copy of the spreadsheet as well

Thanks, Tom

[Oddley]

thostorey

PM sent.

[deb]

Oddley, no surprise here, could I have a copy of your spreadsheet too please.

Deb.