Milk powder

Tips and tecniques on dryng drying, curing etc.

Milk powder

Postby vagreys » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:04 am

So, I'm beginning to explore making emulsion sausages. I see a lot of recipes calling for fresh milk and/or non-fat dry milk powder.

I am allergic to beef, all beef products and by-products, and cow dairy of all kinds.

Can I use goat milk powder, instead? If not, why not?

Can I use non-fat goat milk powder? If not, why not?

Thanks. I realize that the milk powder used in meat processing is very finely ground. I was hoping I could run the goat milk powder through the food processor and make it finer.
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Postby grisell » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:08 am

Sort of the same question here: My daughter is lactose intolerant. Is there anything I can use instead?
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Postby DanMcG » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:22 am

I looked up a couple ingredient labels for Nonfat dried cows milk and for NFD goats milk and they are virtually identical for sugar and protein. I'd have to guess that it would work the same as the cows milk.
Soy protein and phosphates will work as well or even better when it comes to binding and water retention.
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Postby grisell » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:56 pm

Ok, so I should be able to use phosphate instead of milk powder in emulsified sausages then?
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Postby wheels » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:36 pm

If you can get it I'd give the NFD goats milk a go - it'll give a similar colour and texture to the sausage, I guess.

Phosphate will bind, but will it give the same texture as NFDM/Soya?

I think I'd consider potato flour/starch - it thickens at a low temp so should bind the water and, to a lesser extent, fat and will also 'firm up' the sausage. At least I hope it does as I plan to use it in my next lot of hot-dogs instead of phosphate!

Off topic: Not that I've anything against phosphate per se but I'm trying to reduce the amount of different ingredients that I use with the aim of using ingredients that are easily available to the majority.

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Postby crustyo44 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:26 pm

Hi,
I have aquired some recipes for emusified sausage etc that are used by manufacturing butchers on the Continent.
The all list either potato starch, corn flour and even plain flour as a binder and water retainer. These recipes are not out of date but current practices.
Phil, your suggestion to use the above ingredients make sense according to what I have been reading.
I will be using the potato starch and cornflour shortly in continental frankfurts just to see if there are any noticeable differences.
We both should report back with our findings.
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Postby BriCan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:52 pm

grisell wrote:Ok, so I should be able to use phosphate instead of milk powder in emulsified sausages then?

You can but go very lightly otherwise you will have a brick :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a lighter note, I never use anything as a binder when making a emulsified sausage. Believe it or not it is not needed unless you are trying to increase the weight of the end product to make extra money :shock:

All I use when making an emulsion is ice to keep the temperature down. The trick is to learn how to produce a good [binding] emulsion :D Think of stretching an elastic band, you can take it a certain point and it will snap, take it just below that and everything is all right. Making the emulsion is the same.

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Postby BriCan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:58 pm

crustyo44 wrote:Hi,
I have aquired some recipes for emusified sausage etc that are used by manufacturing butchers on the Continent.
The all list either potato starch, corn flour and even plain flour as a binder and water retainer. These recipes are not out of date but current practices.
Phil, your suggestion to use the above ingredients make sense according to what I have been reading.
I will be using the potato starch and cornflour shortly in continental frankfurts just to see if there are any noticeable differences.
We both should report back with our findings..


Jan, if you have the means to make an emulsified sausage give what I just wrote a try, you might be pleasantly surprised with texture, flavour not to mention the savings.

And before someone pipes up it is impossible to do at home, I have a friend who has been doing it for over 30 years. :D
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Postby grisell » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:42 pm

Thanks BriCan, but I've noticed that phosphate is of much help when making e.g. Swedish Falu sausage ( http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... 0820#70820 ) which is the only emuslified one I've made so far. I don't have good enough equipment to rely on when mixing.

BTW, potato flour/starch is a consistent ingredient in Falu sausage recipes, being used at 4-7% of the total weight together with 10-15% of liquid (water). It's essential to the character and Falu sausage is a Product of Designated Origin and it's the only binder permitted.
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Postby BriCan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:15 pm

grisell wrote:Thanks BriCan, but I've noticed that phosphate is of much help when making e.g. Swedish Falu sausage (

Which is why I wrote
You can but go very lightly otherwise you will have a brick :lol: :lol: :lol:


http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?p=70820#70820 ) which is the only emuslified one I've made so far. I don't have good enough equipment to rely on when mixing.

Will try this under the same circumstances as you but will use a food processer as my late good friend did for the 30 odd years he did at home but will make with just meat and spices and no binders

BTW, potato flour/starch is a consistent ingredient in Falu sausage recipes, being used at 4-7% of the total weight together with 10-15% of liquid (water). It's essential to the character and Falu sausage is a Product of Designated Origin and it's the only binder permitted.

As you say; its permited but some may not use. :D :D
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Postby wheels » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:09 am

Brican/Robert

I have no doubt that what you say is true. My own (limited) experience of emulsified sausage leads me to believe that when using 'home' equipment, more water rather than less may be appropriate.

The power of the food processor obviously has an effect - I have a (comparitvely) powerful big Magimix - there's no doubt that it's power helps. However, I find that to get a good emulsion I have to add more water than you would using a bowl cutter/chopper.

As an aside, good temperature control is essential. Just log the temp when doing hot dogs at home - it rises quicker than a tart's knickers!

Doh! Now you've made me be rude!

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Postby crustyo44 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:10 am

Hi Phil,
I have learned something again, about Tart's knickers. I am proud of you!!
Regards,
Jan.
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Postby BriCan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:09 am

wheels wrote: Brican/Robert


Sir; [respectfully]

wheels wrote: I have no doubt that what you say is true.


I do honestly do try and not tell porkies to best of my ability. :?

wheels wrote: My own (limited) experience of emulsified sausage leads me to believe that when using 'home' equipment, more water rather than less may be appropriate.


I pondered this mute point with long and hard and began to wonder if yet again I have given the wrong impression or just muddying the waters or could it be that someone has read something I wrote and read what they want to read? :shock:

Takes a back look to check

Let’s take another look at what I wrote:
All I use when making an emulsion is ice to keep the temperature down. The trick is to learn how to produce a good [binding] emulsion Think of stretching an elastic band, you can take it a certain point and it will snap, take it just below that and everything is all right. Making the emulsion is the same.


I see I did mention ‘ice’ and in my puny mind the confusion now reigns. I always thought ice was water that was frozen? So if ice is water that is frozen then in my small mind I am adding water, and yes I did not state the amount of ice I am using as if I did it would confuse people more or did I. :roll:

wheels wrote: The power of the food processor obviously has an effect - I have a (comparitvely) powerful big Magimix - there's no doubt that it's power helps.


I did say

And before someone pipes up it is impossible to do at home, I have a friend who has been doing it for over 30 years.


wheels wrote: However, I find that to get a good emulsion I have to add more water than you would using a bowl cutter/chopper.


Ok, not trying to a big ar*e but assume that because I use a bowl chopper/silent cutter that I do not need to use that much ice [remember; it is water] I using between 125g - 150g of ice per kg, so you are saying that you are adding more than that? :shock:

wheels wrote: As an aside, good temperature control is essential. Just log the temp when doing hot dogs at home - it rises quicker than a tart's knickers!


Which is why we use ice instead of water; I had hoped that you knew about temperature control and realised that instead of the fast rise you have quoted we achieve a fast lowering which we know you really want. :wink:

wheels wrote: Doh! Now you've made me be rude!


So sorry about that, at least I did mine with tongue in cheek :wink:
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Postby NCPaul » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:26 pm

I'll toss one more suggestion out for consideration - gelatin. This can come from reduced pork stock (to avoid beef origin) and it can be frozen to keep emulsion temperatures down. I liked the effect it had on some chicken sausages (from reduced chicken stock) for moisture retention. I don't believe it made the sausage "firmer" however. :D
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Postby wheels » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:59 pm

Robert

My post wasn't to question/criticise your methods - it was intended to support/reinforce what you said. That it has effectively done the opposite is of concern to me.

Phil
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