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Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:47 pm**

Texans like lots of sage, garlic and red pepper flakes in pork sausage, and the Garlic Pork Bangers recipe is a good starting point for combining English and Texan tastes.

I am going to mix the pork with less fat than in the past because I am going to use breadcrumbs and water to add moisture. I am going to trim a pork shoulder of all fat, including fat connecting the muscle pieces. That way I will end up with only what I call "red stuff". Then I will trim pork scraps so that I end up with only "white stuff".

Now the question is how much red stuff, white stuff, breadcrumbs and water do I use?

1 lb pork mix (?? red/white ratio)
?? breadcrumbs
?? water
1 t. sage
1 t. non-iodized salt
1 t. garlic powder (*)
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes
1/4 t. oregano
1/4 t. marjoram
1/4 t. savory
1/4 t. thyme
1/4 t. rosemary

I have in mind mixing 2 or 3 parts red stuff with 1 part white stuff. To that I would add 3 or 4 T. breadcrumbs plus 3 or 4 T water, respectively.

Your comments regarding the red/white ratio and amount of breadcrumbs and water would be apreciated.

(*) Although raw garlic would usually be preferred over garlic powder, it does not go well with pork sausage, for me anyway. It creates a strange smelling bitter taste when the sausage is a day old. The use of granulated garlic powder works surprisingly well to provide a credible garlic taste in many recipes.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:04 pm**

Bob

To start out I would use
1 lb pork mix (red/white ratio)
( 10 oz RED and 6 oz WHITE)
2 1/2 oz DRIED breadcrumbs
1 3/4 to 2 fl. oz ICED water
1 t. sage
1 t. non-iodized salt
1 t. garlic powder (*)
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes
1/4 t. oregano
1/4 t. marjoram
1/4 t. savory
1/4 t. thyme
1/4 t. rosemary

If you going to freeze them then it is better to use garlic powder than fresh garlic anyway.

kind regards

Parson Snows

PS let us know how you got on.

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:14 pm**

Parson Snows wrote:2 1/2 oz DRIED breadcrumbs

Is that weight oz. or fluid oz.?

When you say "dried", do you mean dry from the container or do I have to dry them out in an oven before measuring?

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll let you all know how it comes out, especially the moisture.

Any other comments?

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:51 pm**

Bob
asked regarding breadcrumbs

Is that weight oz. or fluid oz.?

weight NOT fl. oz

Bob asked

When you say "dried", do you mean dry from the container or do I have to dry them out in an oven before measuring?

Packaged Dry Breadcrumbs should be fine at that small amount. Basically anything but fresh/moist breadcrumbs.

hope that anwsers your questions

kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:19 pm**

Parson Snows wrote:Bob
asked regarding breadcrumbs
1 lb pork mix
2 1/2 oz DRIED breadcrumbs
1 3/4 to 2 fl. oz ICED water

Is that weight oz. or fluid oz.?

weight NOT fl. oz

I weighed out 2 1/2 wt. oz. breadcrumbs and it came to 10 T. I decided to err on the safe side so I put only 6 T. breadcrumbs + 6 T. water. That's 1.6 wt. oz, or 10% of the weight of the pork.

Please double check because 10 T. is lot of breadcrumbs for 1 lb of pork and the water is not an equal amount as recommended.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:00 am**

Bob
You wrote

I weighed out 2 1/2 wt. oz. breadcrumbs and it came to 10 T. I decided to err on the safe side so I put only 6 T. breadcrumbs + 6 T. water. That's 1.6 wt. oz, or 10% of the weight of the pork.

Please double check because 10 T. is lot of breadcrumbs for 1 lb of pork and the water is not an equal amount as recommended.

Looking at it quickly the TOTAL weight of your sausage is approx. 21 ï¿½ oz. as I mentioned before I like to use 10 % (of the TOTAL sausage weight) rusk therefore 21 ï¿½ x 10 % = 2 ï¿½ oz dried breadcrumbs (everyone has their prepared mixes/preferences and youï¿½ll find yours). The composition of every cut of meat and packet of breadcrumbs vary, so just judge the water until it looks above right. ADD IT A LITTLE AT A TIME. You donï¿½t want it too wet or too dry. As I mentioned before the typical fat content for 80 % VL Pork Shoulder/Boston Butt is 28.0 % and the typical fat content for hard pork fat back is 78.6 %

Therefore using the above figures your approx. fat content is (10 x 28.0/100) + (6 x 78.6/100) = 2.80 + 4.716 = 7.516 ozs of fat. So 7.516/21ï¿½ x 100 = 34.958 % total fat content (approx. 35 % fat content). As I said before water is typically used as a fat replacement and I try and achieve a TOTAL fat content of between 25 % to 30 %. As you already have enough fat (approx. 35 %) I didnï¿½t add a higher ratio of water to breadcrumbs. Therefore when you cook these sausages the breadcrumbs will have the capacity to absorb any fat that starts to melt out, retaining all of the flavour. At least on paper.

I hope that this answers your questions

Kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:45 am**

Parson Snows wrote:Looking at it quickly the TOTAL weight of your sausage is approx. 21 ï¿½ oz. as I mentioned before I like to use 10 % (of the TOTAL sausage weight) rusk therefore 21 ï¿½ x 10 % = 2 ï¿½ oz dried breadcrumbs

Hmm... That means you have do do a little algebra to get the weight of breadcrumbs.

I put in 1.6 wt. oz. which is 10% of the pork weight. That is 6 T. which seemed like a lot. I needed every bit of the 6 T. water to get a thick paste, so I can't see reducing the water.

The sausage is in the refrigerator aging a bit and I will try some in the frying pan around breakfast time. If acceptable I will stuff it. My main concern is that it not be too dry, because the pork mix is noticeably darker. I suspect I made the previous mix a little fatter than the numbers indicate.

BTW, I dissected the pork shoulder into red stuff and white stuff. It had already been trimmed of the outside fat. I got 13% white stuff, which is lower than the 20% figure I have been using from an earlier dissection. I must have trimmed this one more aggressively than before.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:18 pm**

Bob
You wrote

Hmm... That means you have to do a little algebra to get the weight of breadcrumbs.

Youï¿½ve already done a similar calculation below.

You wrote

I put in 1.6 wt. oz. which is 10% of the pork weight. That is 6 T. which seemed like a lot. I needed every bit of the 6 T. water to get a thick paste, so I can't see reducing the water.

Youï¿½re right at 13 % fat you wouldnï¿½t be able to reduce the water content. If fact you will have to add either fat/water or a little of each.

As I stated before

The composition of every cut of meat and packet of breadcrumbs vary, so just judge the water until it looks above right. ADD IT A LITTLE AT A TIME. You donï¿½t want it too wet or too dry.
BASICALLY ADD ENOUGH WATER TO GET THE CORRECT CONSISTENCY.

You wrote

The sausage is in the refrigerator aging a bit and I will try some in the frying pan around breakfast time. If acceptable I will stuff it. My main concern is that it not be too dry, because the pork mix is noticeably darker. I suspect I made the previous mix a little fatter than the numbers indicate.

As I said above you will need to add some more fat or water, or a mixture of the two.

You wrote

BTW, I dissected the pork shoulder into red stuff and white stuff. It had already been trimmed of the outside fat. I got 13% white stuff, which is lower than the 20% figure I have been using from an earlier dissection. I must have trimmed this one more aggressively than before.

YOUï¿½VE answered your own question. Thatï¿½s way you should work backwards. Settle on a fat content that suits you then every time your ready to make sausage have all of your meat ready (trimmed and cut open to estimate the internal fat) then calculate the fat content of the meat/fat available. Weigh them separately if you really want to be accurate. Add fat if needed or set any excess fat aside and keep for another batch of sausages.

I hope that this answers your questions

Kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:59 pm**

Parson Snows wrote:Bob
You wrote
I put in 1.6 wt. oz. which is 10% of the pork weight. That is 6 T. which seemed like a lot. I needed every bit of the 6 T. water to get a thick paste, so I can't see reducing the water.

As I said above you will need to add some more fat or water, or a mixture of the two.

The original recipe as presented by you:

1 lb pork mix (red/white ratio)
( 10 oz RED and 6 oz WHITE)
2 1/2 oz DRIED breadcrumbs
1 3/4 to 2 fl. oz ICED water

My actual recipe:

1 lb pork mix (10/6 red/white ratio)
1.6 oz breadcrumbs
3 fl. oz water

Notice that I used exactly the amount of fat you called for, and I used MORE water than you called for.

Why would I want to add more water when I already have more than you specified?

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:23 pm**

I fried a small patty without any oil. I wanted to see how much natural fluids came from rendering. There were no fluids - the fry pan was as dry as when I began. And I fried the sausage very slowly so I do not believe I lost much if any water to steam.

The cooked sausage tasted fine with a couple of exceptions. First, there is far too much breadcrumbs for my taste. So now I will use 3 T. breadcrumbs and 5 T. water per lb. pork (see below).

Secondly, the garlic was a bit too heavy - it was right at the point of having that weird bitter taste I complained about with raw garlic. So I am going to change it to 1/2 t. per lb. pork.

Regarding the amount of breadcrumbs and water, here is part of the original recipe for Pork and Garlic Bangers from Charles Harris:

1 lb 10oz pork
4 fl oz water
2 oz/50 g rusk

He uses 2 oz rusk for 26 oz pork, which is 3 T. per lb. pork, since 6 T. breadcrumbs weighs 1.6 oz. He uses 8 T.water per 26 oz pork. That's equivalent to 5 T. per 16 oz pork.

I stuffed the remaining sausage in a hog casing and put it open in the refrigerator to dry the skin. Earlier I left the unstuffed sausage in the refrigerator for 24 hours and now I may leave the stuffed sausage in for another 24 hours to age it some more. Any recommendations on how long to age bangers?

Then I will tie off a couple 4" links for bangers and mash. I think I will try it with conventional beef gravy, which is the way we are used to eating mashed potatoes. I will later try it with my KC Sauce, and the lookalike HP Sauce when Parson Snow posts his recipe.

I will fry the bangers in butter and/or oil for 20-25 minutes at low heat, just enough to cook the meat but not too much to break the skins. Do you all cover the fry pan when you cook bangers? Do you have a temperature specification for covered cooking - I have a temperature probe. Based on the comments about baking sausage I will try 200F, slightly under the boiling point of water.

Later I will smoke them. Do you all have any recommended wood flavor - I have most flavors available.

Here's the latest recipe:

1 lb pork (6 oz. fat)
3 T. breadcrumbs
5 T. water
1 t. salt
1 t. sage
1/2 t. garlic powder
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes
1/4 t. oregano
1/4 t. marjoram
1/4 t. savory
1/4 t. thyme
1/4 t. rosemary

(11.5 oz. externally trimmed pork butt + 4.5 oz. pure fat)

For pork shoulder that has been aggressively trimmed of outside fat only, figure that 13% of the remaining meat is pure fat. Calculate that as part of the lean and fat mix above. That gives you 11.5 oz externally-trimmed pork shoulder plus 4.5 pure fat. You have to trim the exterior to get accurate percentages because the amount of fat the packing house leaves varies from hardly any to 1" thick.

I notice that the recipe for Oxford Sausage, which looks close to this recipe for bangers, has an enormous amount of breadcrumbs, so one day I will try it to see what happens. But I am not a fan of adjuncts - if I make pork sausage, I want to taste mostly pork. Also, that Oxford Sausage recipe has grated lemon rind which might really go well with the garlic.

Comments, please.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:00 pm**

Very quickly as something has come up

Bob you wrote

The original recipe as presented by you:

1 lb pork mix (red/white ratio)
( 10 oz RED and 6 oz WHITE)
2 1/2 oz DRIED breadcrumbs
1 3/4 to 2 fl. oz ICED water

My actual recipe:

1 lb pork mix (10/6 red/white ratio)
1.6 oz breadcrumbs
3 fl. oz water

Notice that I used exactly the amount of fat you called for, and I used MORE water than you called for.

Why would I want to add more water when I already have more than you specified?

First of all it's not my original recipe, and secondly but more importantly you keep "moving the goal posts".
You wrote

BTW, I dissected the pork shoulder into red stuff and white stuff. It had already been trimmed of the outside fat. I got 13% white stuff, which is lower than the 20% figure I have been using from an earlier dissection. I must have trimmed this one more aggressively than before.

Originally the meat was 80/20 vl (your figure) but then we get down to 13 % White stuff (your figure) so assuming that the meat still contains approx. 8 % internal fat. That still leaves a difference of 15 %.

As I stated before

The composition of every cut of meat and packet of breadcrumbs vary, so just judge the water until it looks above right. ADD IT A LITTLE AT A TIME. You donï¿½t want it too wet or too dry.
BASICALLY ADD ENOUGH WATER TO GET THE CORRECT CONSISTENCY.

Thatï¿½s why you should work backwards. Settle on a fat content that suits you (35 % or whatever) then every time your ready to make sausage have all of your meat ready (trimmed and cut open to estimate the internal fat) then calculate the fat content of the meat/fat available. Weigh them separately if you really want to be accurate. Add fat if needed or set any excess fat aside and keep for another batch of sausages.

I hope that this anwsers some points

kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:29 pm**

Parson Snows wrote:more importantly you keep "moving the goal posts".

That's because I get different results depending on how I prepare things. One minute the term "fat" means what the sausage books mean, namely the white stuff commonly called fat. The next minute we are off into nutrition definitions of fats and fatty acids.

When I say my pork mix is 37.5% fat, I mean that I mixed 11.5 parts of externally-trimmed pork shoulder (87% visually lean, 13% visually fat) with 4.5 parts of 100% pure pork back fat. That gives me 10 parts red stuff and 6 parts white stuff. I have no idea what the real fat percentage is, because I do not know how much fat is contained in visually lean pork (red stuff). I imagine the actual percent fat in visually lean red stuff varies from piece to piece.

You wrote
BTW, I dissected the pork shoulder into red stuff and white stuff. It had already been trimmed of the outside fat. I got 13% white stuff, which is lower than the 20% figure I have been using from an earlier dissection. I must have trimmed this one more aggressively than before.

Originally the meat was 80/20 vl (your figure) but then we get down to 13 % White stuff (your figure) so assuming that the meat still contains approx. 8 % internal fat. That still leaves a difference of 15 %.

What was rated 20% fat is now rated 13% fat. I believe the difference is that I trimmed the outside fat more aggressively this time compared to before.

As I stated before "the composition of every cut of meat and packet of breadcrumbs vary, so just judge the water until it looks above right."

That's what I am trying to learn to do. Now that I am past the stage of making fancy dog food, I think I am getting closer. I am hoping that the use of breadcrumbs in small amounts will buffer the effects of fat variation.

This breadcrumb thing is new to me, so I have to play around with it some more. I just used 10% of pork weight with an equal amount of water by volume. Earlier I tried 5% of pork weight with an equal amount of water. I liked the 5% figure so that is what I am going to use. However I am going to add more water to see what happens.

I cut the batch I just made in half with some I made the other day with 5% breadcrumbs, which I suppose now makes it 7.5%. It tastes better but I still like 5% best. The average water content is now 4.5 T. so I am very close to 5 T in the latest recipe.

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:29 am**

For those who might be interested, I pan fried a couple 4" links of the bangers on low heat for about 20 minutes with the pan covered. I added a slight bit of water to cause steam so they would cook throughout.

They were not overly juicy but they were definitely moist. And the flavor was perfect. Even my wife liked them, and she is not a sausage person.

We have a winner here, folks. Once again the latest recipe:

AngloTex Bangers

1 lb pork (75% trimmed pork shoulder + 25% fat)
3 T. breadcrumbs
5 T. water
1 t. salt
1 t. sage
1/2 t. garlic powder
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes
1/4 t. oregano
1/4 t. marjoram
1/4 t. savory
1/4 t. thyme
1/4 t. rosemary

Thanks to those who commented, especially Parson Snows. This recipe is definitely a keeper.

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:27 am**

Could I use packaged unseasoned bread stuffing instead of breadcrumbs as a rusk substitute? I would have to crumble the stuffing but I believe the granules would be larger than breadcrumbs.

It would seem that crumbled bread stuffing would be the same as rusk, which is defined in Websters Dictionary thusly:

rusk: hard crisp bread originally used as ship's stores; a sweet or plain bread baked, sliced, and baked again until dry and crisp.

Sounds like bread stuffing to me.

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:55 am**

Bob the difference between rusk and breadcrumbs is rusk is made with baking powder and bread with yeast. Parson Snows posted this recipe for rusk.

If you make it increase the baking time it should be cooked until dry and crisp all the way through.

Parson snows wrote:Rusk (Economy)

Ingredients
ï¿½ 1 lb (450 g) plain/all purpose flour or bread flour/strong flour
ï¿½ 1/2 tspn (pinch) of salt
ï¿½ 2 tspns (25 ml) DOUBLE ACTING baking powder (see note below)
ï¿½ 6 ï¿½ - 8 ï¿½ fl oz (185 -250 ml) potable water

Note: 1 tspn (5 ml) baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and 2 ï¿½ tspns (11ï¿½ ml) cream of tartar may be substituted for the baking powder.

Method
ï¿½ Preheat oven to 450 ï¿½F (230 ï¿½C)
ï¿½ Sieve the flour, salt and DOUBLE ACTION baking powder together.
ï¿½ DO NOT ADD ALL OF THE WATER but just enough to make a smooth, pliable dough (all flours vary)
ï¿½ Roll out lightly to approximately ï¿½ï¿½ (12 mm) thick then place on a lightly greased tray
ï¿½ Place in oven on the middle shelf and bake for 15 minutes at 450 ï¿½F (230 ï¿½C)
ï¿½ Remove from the oven and using the tines of a fork split in half along its thickness
ï¿½ Place back on tray with the opened faces upwards
ï¿½ Return to oven
ï¿½ Reduce the heat to 375 ï¿½F (190 ï¿½C) and bake for a further 15 minutes.
ï¿½ Remove from oven and allow to cool on a wire rack.
ï¿½ When cool using the large holes of a grater reduce to ?ï¿½ (3 mm) particles.
ï¿½ Store in airtight container and use as required.

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