Saveloy Disaster.

[Oddley]

I made Saveloys Sunday 2 kg in 500 gm lots all using the recipe From Parson Snows.

Copied from Sausage and Small Goods Production (1972)

Saveloys


12 lb lean beef or pork pieces or similar meat
3 lb pork fat
5 lb rusk weighed after soaking and fairly dry
� oz stock seasoning to each lb of meat and fat

Stock Seasoning
19 lb salt
8 lb ground white pepper
6 oz ground ginger
2 oz ground mace
2 oz ground cinnamon
2 Grames Hickory smoke powder

Method
Pass the meat through the fine plate of the mincer and take to the bowl chopper. Add seasoning, rusk, and finally the fat. Fill out into hog casings, but do not link them. Twist them first to the right, and the second to the left, and so on, to prevent them becoming untwisted. Smoke in a warm dense smoke for about half an hour and cook for 15 minutes at a temperature of 175 �F. Alternatively, if the saveloys are not to be smoked, add to the recipe 2 oz. of smoke powder and cook them in a dye.

I don't know if the bacon I added was on the turn but they all tasted a bit funny. I'll use a combination of beef and pork next time. the first lot using the spice mixture above was extreamly spicy and hot ( bought tears to the eyes). So I reduced it in the second lot still to spicy. Anyway it went on like that and no joy also I was using hog casings and after the poaching period they came out like rubber ( you had to suck the meat out of them).

So two questions:

1: What casings can be used with this type of product
2: Anybody know how to calculate a spice mix so when one or two ingredients change the weight of the spice mix can be calculated so the percentages stay the same.

For example if you use less of a spice mix because it is too salty how do you calculate using less salt but keep the overall percentages of the other spices the same.

[TobyB]

Sounds like an awful lot of white pepper (approx 40% by volume) . White pepper can give meat a very funny taste if too much is used. This is especially true of beef when too much white pepper can almost make it taste rather like TCP. Your "gone off bacon" may well be too much white pepper in your mix.

Evidently you can work out the amounts reduced easily enough although if people would only post in Kilogrammes and grammes this would be a great deal more easily achieved.

[TobyB]

Amounts in Kilos:

8.61826 kilos salt
3.62874 kilos white pepper
0.170097 kilos ginger
0.0566991 kilos of mace and cinnamon

to put this into a sensible quantity

1 kilo of salt
0.4 kilo of white pepper (ie 400 grammes)
0.0197 kilo of ginger (ie 20 grammes)
0.0065 kilo of mace and cinnamon (ie 7 grammes)

[Parson Snows]

Oddley wrote

I made Saveloys Sunday 2 kg in 500 gm lots all using the recipe From Parson Snows

It�s not my recipe, though I did post it on the forum. It comes from a very reliable trade book. Sorry that it hasn�t worked out yet. I checked my file copy against the original and there are no differences.

Oddley wrote

the first lot using the spice mixture above was extremely spicy and hot ( bought tears to the eyes). So I reduced it in the second lot still to spicy.

I cannot understand why the spice would have made you cry, it work�s out about a 2.34 % overall spice/seasoning mix. Basically less than 50 g (46.8 g) including the salt for 2 kilos of sausages.

Recipe states

Pass the meat through the fine plate of the mincer and take to the bowl chopper

Do you have a bowl chopper? If not how did you do this part?

Oddley asked

What casings can be used with this type of product ?

Devro UK stock pre-coloured casings suitable for making saveloys
http://www.devro.plc.uk/products/dev_cas.htm.

Oddley stated

I'll use a combination of beef and pork next time

A combination of beef and pork works fine.

Oddley asked

Anybody know how to calculate a spice mix so when one or two ingredients change the weight of the spice mix can be calculated so the percentages stay the same.

For example if you use less of a spice mix because it is too salty how do you calculate using less salt but keep the overall percentages of the spices the same.

I�ll get back to you (metric units ok?)

I�ll get back to you on that

Kind regards

Parson Snows
PS I hope that you already bought the dog you were talking about.

[aris]

Interesting link - Devro seem to do Kosher sausage casings too.

[Oddley]

These are my notes whilst doing it. The top one is the original spice mix converted from the recipe.

Stock Seasoning Small amount
152 Grames Salt
64 Grames ground white pepper
3 Grames ground ginger
1 Gram ground Mace
1 Gram ground cinnamon
2 Grames Hickory smoke powder

Saveloy first try

500 g meat
28 g bread crumbs
14 g spice mix
6 ice cubes
2 much pepper

Saveloy second try
500 g meat
10 g spice
2 g salt
tiny bit garlic powder
6 ice cubes
too much pepper

New spice mix
135 Grames Salt
25 Grames ground white pepper
3 Grames ground ginger
1 Gram ground Mace
1 Gram ground cinnamon
3 gram garlic powder
2 gram smoke

Saveloy third try
500 g meat
12 g spice
4 ice cubes
2 mins grind in processor

Saveloy fourth try
500 g meat
10 g spice
3 ice cubes

1 1/2 mins grind in processor

Try last one again Use spice mix at 8 gm per 1 lb
2 mins grind in processor

As You can see I reduced the salt and pepper in the second spice mix that's why I wanted the formula because the obviously the percentage of the rest of the spices in the meat would change

Edit : Parson I have a Magimix Processor emulsifies great.

I hope that you already bought the dog you were talking about.

I feel somewhat a chickens arse telling you this but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Parson Snows]

TobyB

you wrote
Sounds like an awful lot of white pepper (approx 40% by volume)
8.61826 kilos salt
3.62874 kilos white pepper
0.170097 kilos ginger
0.0566991 kilos of mace and cinnamon

The above figures total 12.473 796 1 kg (I haven't checked your conversions)
therefore for the pepper
3.628 74 /12.473 796 1 X 100 = 29.090 9 % and not 40 %

taken as a percentage of the overall saveloy mix
2.00 kilos saveloys made with a spice percentage of 2.343 75 %
2 000 X 2.343 75 /100 = 48.875 g total spice mix of which pepper is 29.090 9 %
therefore estimated pepper content in 2.00 kg saveloys is
48.875 X 29.090 9 / 100 =14.218 177 g of pepper

kind regards

Parson Snows

[TobyB]

Parson,

sorry being dim and was only dividing by the salt weight. You are of course, quite correct. Still sounds like a lot of pepper to me though

[Parson Snows]

TobyB

Thanks for the information. Though I would appreciate it if you checked your calculations again



You mentioned that it seems a lot of of pepper, though it's not a lot more than you would use for a Lincolnshire sausage recipe. (1 Tblspn + 2 tspns per 2 kilos)

kind regards

Parson Snows

[Parson Snows]

Oddley
You said

I feel somewhat a chickens arse telling you this but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I said

PS I hope that you already bought the dog you were talking about.

You previously said

To change the subject I'm yet again trying to make Saveloys tomorrow.
I have thrown away more meat trying to make these things than Bob has thrown down his Beagles throat

You later said

As I said it didn't matter to me because from every disaster I learn important lessons. Like buy a dog

.

If I follow then you're referring to the recipe and not the dog... Correct?

kind regards

Parson Snows

[Oddley]

To be honest I don't care what the figures say the saveloys were uneatabley spicy with pepper and I love spice and am a chili fanatic.

Just had a look at Devro any ideas how I can get some of them Coloured Sausage Casings.

[Franco]

Could you not add cure 1 to redden the sausage?


Franco

[Parson Snows]

Oddley
You wrote

To be honest I don't care what the figures say the saveloys were uneatabley spicy

I have already said I apologise for the lack of success though hopefully it's forthcoming shortly. It's all like detective work, try and find out what went wrong and why, and then stop it happening again. I think that you do care as you have kept some detailed records/notes etc. which should help. I've started looking over these and at the moment really nothing stands out. If truths be told though we always lightly smoked our saveloys when I was working in the UK, though I can guarantee you that the pieces of meat and fat that you are using are far superior to the scraps and trimmings that we utilised. They were basically to use up scraps and prevent losses. Before I say this I am not in any way implying that you don't know what you are doing. I've never met you, though from your postings, notes etc. it is obvious, at least to me, that you are certainly keen and do know what you are doing, and are continuosly delving into the abyss. With that said please bear with me I have several simple questions for you. They are simple because nothing is jumping out.
fact: you have tried four test cases none successful
fact: you have adjusted the spices etc. every time

questions
You stated

I don't know if the bacon I added was on the turn but they all tasted a bit funny

1) Was it the same bacon that was used in each batch?

As spices and herbs don't keep too long certainly ones on the turn.
2) Was it the same spices used in each lot (batch not type).?

you wrote

I have a Magimix Processor emulsifies great.

3) Have you used this for each batch?

4) Before trying to make these saveloys when was the last time this machinery was used and for what?

kind regards

Parson Snows
I would really like to know what is going wrong

[Oddley]

Parson.
The first batch had a similar taste to the one I am looking for but too much pepper so I want to keep the same percent of all the other spices but reduce the pepper significantly.

and are continuosly delving into the abyss.

If there was no abyss to delve into I would not be here. The challenge is everything

1) Was it the same bacon that was used in each batch?

Yes I minced all the meat toughter. Then bought the tempreture down first in the freezer then the bottom of the fridge.

As spices and herbs don't keep too long certainly ones on the turn.
2) Was it the same spices used in each batch.?

Yes. They were all mostly fresh bought if not used recently and ok..

3) Have you used this for each batch?

Yes the processor was washed out then was used for each batch and washed out after each batch.

4) Before trying to make these saveloys when was the last time this machinery was used and for what?

A couple of days before to make breadcrumbs. Then washed up

Franco the hog casings as I have said were like rubber and the bite not right. They were red because I dyed them with red food dye at the poaching stage.

[sausagemaker]

Hi Oddley

I think your first question has been answered in the case of casings
as for your second question listed below

2: Anybody know how to calculate a spice mix so when one or two ingredients change the weight of the spice mix can be calculated so the percentages stay the same.

Try this:
When changing the weights make up the difference with fine rusk, cornflour or potato starch. this then keeps all the other ingredients in balance.

Hope this helps
Regards
sausagemaker