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Have any of you been to the Philippines and tried out the "Hungarian" sausage? People over here love it, but from the recipes I've seen in books and on the internet, the "Hungarian" sausage we have over here seems to be a corrupted version of some sort. It's a coarse emulsion sausage that is smoked and cooked, but not dried. From my research, it seems that the real Hungarian sausage is smoked and dried.

I tried to make Ruhlman's Hungarian paprika sausage, and I must say that I did not particularly enjoy the flavor profile. It was one-note, all paprika and no levels of flavor and no subtlety -- for me anyway.

If anybody has tried the "Hungarian" over here, please help me figure out how to make it. Thanks!

Hi

I've not been to your part of the world (yet), but I can say a little bit about hungarian salami. I ADORE it and got given some "pick" hungarian salami for Christmas. In the ingredients list they say "pork 161%".

What that means, of course, is that it's a pretty heavily dried salami.

If 1610 gms of pork are dried to 1kg (ignoring spices and such) then it's losing about 37% of weight in the drying process.

There are many hungarian sausages, apart from the "pick", previously mentioned, there are gyulai and Debrecen sausages. Gyulai are a cured sausage, rather like many we get in France - and from which Dave takes his nickname, and a Debrecen sausage is a very high quality smoked frying sausage. It's a delight and is high on my list of recipes to try now I've got a smoker.

I'm afraid that's not much help, but it might interest someone.

Ian wrote:

In the ingredients list they say "pork 161%".

Shucks Ian, that's what I'd call a "supersaturated" piggy eh?
Best wishes, Chuckwagon

Hi KooKoo,
Try this one from ol' Rytek. I think you'll like it. I like it with just a bit more black pepper and a little less paprika, but that's just my taste. Hope you enjoy it.
Best wishes, Chuckwagon

Smoked Hungarian Sausage

Beef chuck (lean) 3 lbs.
Pork butt (with fat) 6 lbs.
Fatback 1 lb.
3-1/2 tbl. Salt
2 tspns. Prague Powder Cure #1
6 Tblspns. good Hungarian paprika
3 Tblspns. powdered dextrose
1-1/2 Tblspns. granulated garlic
1 Tblspn. black pepper (cracked)
2 cups icewater (32°F.)

Please use sweet Hungarian paprika in this sausage, as Spanish paprika will make it somewhat bitter. Separate the fat of the butts from the lean meat and freeze the fat with the pound of fatback. Mince the pork butts and beef using a 3/8” plate. Place the meat into the refrigerator while you mince the frozen fat using a well-chilled 1/8” plate. Stir the Cure #1 into the water. Place the fat back into the freezer while you add the remaining ingredients to the ground meat along with the water containing the nitrite cure. Mix the meat, water, and spices together until the first signs of a meat paste begin to develop. Add the refrigerated minced fat and continue to mix until a smooth meat paste has formed and all the ingredients have been thoroughly incorporated. Stuff and link the mixture into 38 mm hog casings and allow the links to dry at room temperature for an hour before you place them into a preheated 130°F. (55°C.) smoker. When the links begin to take on some color, raise the temperature GRADUALLY over a period of time - (no more than 10° per hour), until the smokehouse temperature is 160°F. (71°C.). Introduce smoke and maintain this temperature until the internal meat temperature registers 150°F. (66°C.) Finally, remove the links from the smoker and shower them in cold water until they drop to room temperature.

Hi CW,

A supersaturated pig indeed.

To come to the Rytek recipe you put up, which interests me greatly, as it looks very like a Debrecen sausage to me. Can I ask you a couple of silly questions please.

1. In the recipe it says

... the links to dry at room temperature for an hour before you place them into a preheated 130°F. (55°C.) smoker. When the links begin to take on some color, raise the temperature GRADUALLY over a period of time

Am I right in thinking that this first change of colour is merely drying out, more or less? There's no smoke involved at this stage is there.

The second is the perennial one of Prague powder vs our French nitrited salt.

Our curing salt has 0.6% nitrite, as you know, and Prague powder has 6%. So in order to get the same amount of nitrite as the 2tsp of prague#1 in the recipe, I would need a total of 20 tsp of my nitrited salt, wouldn't I? However, with 3.5 tbs + 2 tsp in Rytek's recipe, that makes a grand total of 12.5 tsp salt (of which there's a little bit of nitrite, not enough to worry about when calculating salt). I don't want to increase the total salt quantity from 12.5 to 20 tsp so do you think it would be acceptable from a safety point of view if I just use the 12.5 tsp of nitrited salt and be done with it, accepting that I'll have (mumble and counting on my thumbs) 0.45 g nitrite for 4.54 kg (sorry about the metric) which is an ingoing nitrite level of approx 100 ppm?

I will be trying this out this Thursday. I have no access to Hungarian paprika though. How should I adjust then? All I have is Spanish paprika.

Ian

I think that what chuckwagon is saying is to apply the smoke at 130° and when some colour has been taken on, gradually raise the temperature - but your correct, the sausage needs to be dry when it goes in the smoker, or dried out in the smoker before applying smoke.

As to the salt level from the French cure; it's a real catch 22 situation isn't it? Personally I would see 100PPM as 'borderline' but the EU scientists tell us that it is likely to be safe. Given meat with good provenance, clean, safe handling etc I guess that I'd do what you suggest particularly as it's a cooked product. I'd calculate the cure in gm though to make sure you're getting the correct amount as there's no margin for error.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I can't recommend it; but would probably do it myself!

kookoobah

I'd just replace the Hungarian with the Spanish...

...and rename the sausage!

Hi Phil.

Re smoking. Interesting... as I had quite a strong impression that this isn't what was meant! Otherwise, why say

until the smokehouse temperature is 160°F. (71°C.). Introduce smoke

If one had been smoking from 130F onwards, then you wouldn't need to say "introduce smoke". I guess we'll have to wait for the good sheriff to tell us.

As for nitrite.. thanks for seeing my dilemma. That said, I guess the reason the French use the proportion of nitrite they do, is because they intend the "nitrited salt" to be used as a straight one-for-one substitute for salt - with the logical inference that they reckon it's safe.

As for subbing Spanish paprika. I couldn't agree with you more. It's not the use of any random paprika that makes it a Hungarian sausage. The flavours really are quite wildly different.

Ian

My apologies I failed to notice that bit, it sure is an odd method though.

I know what you mean about the curing salt, but I can't work out why everything doesn't taste too salty, you'd think it would if normal EU curing levels are used. Having said that I guess that its main use in France is for air-dried stuff which has a high level of salt anyway.

You're also correct about the paprika - the difference in taste is quite marked.

Phil

Hi Guys,

I’ve not noticed until now how confusing that can be. I’ve always just smoked it at the end of a good bloom, lightly in hickory - but that’s just my preference. I’m sure the salt volume may be reduced, especially in view of your European cure. I dream of the day that the nitrate and nitrite cures become universal around the globe and everyone understands how to use it correctly. What I fear is the nitrosamines created with the use of your potassium chloride. I have no doubt it is carcinogenic when cooked at higher temperatures. Perhaps some weird cactus eatin’ cowboy will come up with the perfectly safe cure before this decade ends. Hmmm, it just might take one of those French chefs in Forges eh? A British bricklayer?

One more note about the sausage. I remember a post from Nutczak answering Vagreys. Both men were absolutely convinced that Spanish paprika should not be used in sausage. Its just too bitter. I agree. On the other hand, sweet Hungarian is worth the time to look for it. The only place I can find it is in specialty markets.

Last, but not least, a bit more of my western wisdom: If you find yer’self in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'.

Best wishes, Chuckwagon

Can you explain your comment about potassium chloride Chuck? Unless is a typo I'm confused...

Dave

Chuckwagon wrote:One more note about the sausage. I remember a post from Nutczak answering Vagreys. Both men were absolutely convinced that Spanish paprika should not be used in sausage. Its just too bitter. I agree. On the other hand, sweet Hungarian is worth the time to look for it. The only place I can find it is in specialty markets.

I wouldn't like to tell a Spanish Chorizo maker that!

Phil

saucisson wrote:Can you explain your comment about potassium chloride Chuck? Unless is a typo I'm confused...

Dave

Yes I noticed that too. I guess/hope it was just a typo

To Chuckwagon . Thanks for the explanation re heating/smoking.

In fact given the lower proportion of nitrite in our french sel nitrité, you either have to use LESS nitrite than Ritek recommends, to get the right amount of salt, or else use MORE salt to get the right amount of nitrite, so we're less likely to get problems with Nitrosamine here.

My worry is over whether there's enough Nitrite to be safe during the smoking process.

oops..... typo!
"Potassium chloride" should have been "potassium nitrate" !
Sorry for the confusion.
Best wishes, Chuckwagon

Thanks for clearing up the typo Chuck

Dave