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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:36 pm
by captain wassname
Probably as littlte as 50 ppm.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:21 pm
by kimgary
Hi Jim Many thanks for that I will start with that amount.

I am all up for a fight providing its a food fight and Phil is going to throw his soft rolls at me. :lol

Regards again


PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:56 pm
by wheels
captain wassname wrote:Probably as littlte as 50 ppm.


Bloomin' right Jim - pink pork pie, I ask you?

Oh and Kimgary - I make crusty rolls especially for fighting with!

If you must have the meat pink, start by trying around 50 - 80 PPM nitrite, that's around 1gm - 1.4gm per kg of meat. I suppose the alternative would be to include bacon/ham in the recipe - but if you do, I suggest that you avoid Melton Mowbray! :lol: :lol:

Let us know how it goes.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:13 pm
by kimgary
Hi All Again.
Jim, did you mean 50 PPM of shop cure as that works out to 3 PPM of actual sodium nitrite?

Hope the following info is of use to people on here.

In most commercial pies, bacons, sausages etc I have noticed they use the preservative sodium metabisulphite E223.

Acceptable daily intake for the following based on body weight 70 Kg or 11 stone.

E223 sodium metabisulphite upto 0.7mg/kg hence for above 49 grams.

E249 potassium nitrIte upto 0.06mg/kg hence for above 4.2 grams.

E250 Sodium nitriTe (shop cure) upto 0.06mg/kg hence 4.2 grams.

E251 sodium nitraTe upto 3.7mg/kg hence 259 grams.

E252 potassium nitrAte (salt petre) upto 3.7mg/kg hence 259 grams.

Working on the daily intake max for normal salt as 6grams per day, in the above example of body weight 70kg, this works out at .085mg/kg.

Hope others find this as interesting as I have.

Regards Gazza.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:06 pm
by wheels
wheels wrote:...start by trying around 50 - 80 PPM nitrite, that's around 1gm - 1.4gm per kg of meat. I suppose the alternative would be to include bacon/ham in the recipe...

Those other figures are interesting.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:25 pm
by captain wassname
Nitrite .As Phil said a gm per kilo of shop cure.
11 stones!!! skinny gits.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:27 pm
by kimgary
Thanks Phil and Jim.

Will do as you suggest, the 70 kilos is my bestest goal I was 100 now down to 95, last time I was 70 I was very very ill, I just used that weight as a sort of average so people could relate to the total grams allowed. Ladies I am referring to the male weight so please adjust data to your individual weights and no bad language please. we need to combine all our knowledge and make a weight reducing pork pie or cornish pastie. :lol:

Phil, can you share your crusty roll recipe with me or do I have to fight you for it. :lol:

I am intrigued by the data I listed, off the top of my head, the nitrate allowance for the 11 stone MAN is 9 ounces roughly.
The nitrates are turned into nitrites by saliva in the mouth and in the stomach, I would like to know what the percentage of nitrite produced by this relates to the nitrates going in!.

The USA ban nitrates in food to be cooked /heated because heat also converts nitrates to nitrites and it is NITRITES that can POSSIBLY cause cancers.
If this is the case why are nitrites allowed in the first place, unless nitrites are destroyed in the body?

I know its sad but sometimes I wish there was a chemist/biologist on this site that could be able to answer this?

Going off track and to set the record straight I am now 53, I was brought up on, dripping on toast, pigs trotters, best butter, brains on toast, etc etc, non of my health problems are due to diet, I have very low cholestol and all my arteries are crystal clear. Having said that I have been living in the south for 1/2 my life and my wife looks after me, I have learned to eat garlic, I have learned to cook authentic takeaway curries from a friend who had his own restaurant.

I honestly believe that every thing in moderation is perfect, I have best butter on special occasions, a olivio TYPE spread otherwise, pies occasionaly etc etc, I believe if we went back to a diet of the early 60's allowing for our reduced physical work load we could cure a host of food intolerance etc, etc, but then we got our fresh veg and meat DAILY from our corner shop, where did it all go wrong???

Sorry I have gone off track but I am passoinate about English food, French cannot compare, except that they appreciate all our fantastic seafood we don't use.

Please feel free to post this where it should be, will let you know how I get on with Pork PIes.

Kind Regards Gazza.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:01 pm
by wheels

I don't really have a crusty roll recipe. I tend to 'wing it'. I've done them with sourdough - very nice. Sometimes I cook the soft roll recipe on a lot higher temperature (say 220°C) with a tray of water in the oven. I remove the water after about 8 minutes. These make a passable 'crustier roll' - but they could be improved - they have too much fat to be a real crusty roll.

I've not really looked at doing crusty rolls in earnest as they don't keep very well. In our house you never know how many will be eating so I tend to make things that will keep if no-one turns up.

Please keep us posted about your pies. I got a load of meat today (£120's worth) so will be making a batch myself shortly.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:56 am
by kimgary

Thanks for your reply you have given me ideas.

I am very jealous of where you live with reference to buying good local meat.

Just a thought but it would be nice to have a sticky for the different areas of the country of where we can buy decent meat, either direct from the slaughter house or meat producers, trade suppliers etc. Years ago we had a local slaughter house about 7 miles away but they are all fading away very quickly now.
Asking local farmers about buying a lamb direct from them they all come out with "about £100 mate"

By the way do you get your meat in sides, primal parts or all jointed?

Regards Gazza.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:25 pm
by wheels
You can post details of suppliers in 'The Market Place' section of the site.

I don't buy whole lamb as I haven't the freezer space, but £100 doesn't sound too bad, or does it?

The half pigs from the farm come butchered to my requirements. I used to have parts as primals and do them myself, but my left hand is no longer too good so I tend to get them fully butchered. When I go to the abattoir I often just buy the individual pieces as against a half pig. That way I can get the belly/loin from a big pig and the leg from a smaller one if I want.

Yesterdays purchases included 4.5kg of B & R leg, 6.4kg loin, 4.8kg belly and 11.5kg shoulder and collar. They boned the loin and belly for me and skinned and cut the shoulder/collar up for mincing. It saves me tons of time. I bring the bones home as well. One perk is that the loin comes with the tenderloin/fillet on it - that's for tea, not curing!

I'm surprised that none of the farm shops in your are sell half/whole pigs even one of the big ones around here does a half pig at £88.