Need Help with Chicken Sausage

[chefisaac]

If the pH is low, binding is lowered. Additives such as breadcrumbs of starch also bind water but do not add structure to the sausage. Holding water is different to sausage makers than creating the bind. I hope this is clear, if not, keep asking questions.

Four questions:

1) If the PH is lower, will phosphates solve this?

2) Can you elaborate on the water holding and binding?

3) Whats the difference in using phosphates, rusk, milk powder and tapioca starch? My thoughts are that these are used in place of the high fat content that sausage using has. Is this right?

4) In many culinary recipes and formulas, we rely on percentages (for pastry and breads for example). I see there are percentage based formulas but most are for pork sausages and have not seen any for chicken sausage. Anyone have one?

[NCPaul]

Phosphates will neutralize some of the acetic, but this will change their ability to create a good bind in the sausage. I think it would be better to mix the sausagemeat to create the bind (the meat will become a sticky mass) then gentle mix in the acid containing ingredients ice cold and last. This works also with ingredients containing alcohol.

I think of binding as a network that holds everything together. The bind holds the meat together with itself and holds in water and fat when cooking. A sausage with a poor bind will cook up dry and crumbly, at its worst, like sawdust. All of the fat and water will drain out from the meat. If you take ground beef from package and fry it in a pan with no mixing or shaping, you will see this. There are ingredients that can be used to help hold water in a sausage, like rusk or breadcrumbs, oats, rice, starches, but these do not create the protein network to hold the meat together. They have their use and can improve a sausage, but are not a substitute for a good bind.

Here is a chicken sausage I posted with metric measures which you can convert to percentages:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8246
(Note: not trying to pump my own recipe, though it is good, I just knew how I had entered it).

[chefisaac]

NCPaul:

Thank you for the above.

If you wanted to use boneless skinless thighs without the majority of the fat, can it be done?

[NCPaul]

Even with the fat on "supermarket" chicken, it will not be more than 10 % (which is low by sausage standards). Some fat will also be lost in poaching and cooking, but you can try it less fat. Let us know what you think.

[DanMcG]

Here's some skinless wieners I made this week
1000g low fat thigh meat
3% by meat weight tapioca starch
150 of meat jelly (or aspic) rendered from the trimmed skin bones and fat.
18g salt
2.2 grams cure
10g of spice



nice and firm moist and good mouth feel. (thanks Capt'n)

[NCPaul]

Nice work Dan.

[chefisaac]

Here is the sausage from todays try. I used the recipe from NC Paul with a few slight modifications.

https://plus.google.com/photos/10446632 ... wMKstLPgLw

Not sure how to post pics but there is the link.

[NCPaul]

Well those don't look like mine but they look like an improvement from your first photos. What was the recipe you used (if you are happy with it)? Your sausagemeat looks as if it has a good bind, can you see (and taste) the difference between your first sausage and your second? Have the texture issues been resolved? Some posts about photo posting can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1610

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8025

[Dogfish]

Perhaps:

-- Try using stewing hens or old rooster meat. More protein = more bind. Each cut from each animal holds varying amounts of water, up to bull's meat at 100%.

-- Have all the meat half frozen. Just soft enough get get a knife through, in cubes. Mix the seasoning into the cubed meat and grind it all. Keep it at hand-cramping temps.

-- Try adding .015 or so baking soda. It's an alkali like phosphates, but common.

-- Don't skimp on salt.