Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Beginners FAQ on sausage making, meat curing etc may often be found at the head of each relevant section, but here is the place to ask experienced users for advice if you are still stuck or need more information...we're here to help!

Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby senorkevin » Tue May 20, 2014 2:15 pm

OK, I returned from a meeting yesterday with a company that sells "everything I need to make sausage except the meat and water!". The 2 people I spoke with were very informative. They explained that I should use a preservative, phosphate etc.
However they don't sell kosher/purified salt and they don't think anyone does over here. Also NOBODY uses cure # 2 as one of the ingredients is banned. Therefore he explained that everyone cures with # 1 instead of #2 because when curing with #1 the nitrite turns into nitrate. So everyone that makes salami, smoked sausage etc uses #1. Can someone please explain the process and how I could replace #2 with #1. Thanks a mil.
An Englishman living in México.
There'e not such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer!
senorkevin
Registered Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Mexico

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby Tasso » Tue May 20, 2014 3:19 pm

The nitrite in cure #1 doesn't turn into nitrate. It's actually the other way around.

Cure #1 contains salt and sodium nitrite. Cure #2 contains salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate. The nitrite in both cures acts immediately to protect against spoilage bacteria and to give the meat the characteristic cured color and flavor, and to help protect the fat in the meat against rancidity. The nitrate in cure #2 converts over time, by the action of bacteria in the meat, to nitrite. Nitrate by itself doesn't protect against spoilage bacteria. It must be converted to nitrite to be effective. It is the nitrite that provides protection against the growth of botulism-producing organisms.

I can't address your question about replacing cure #2 with cure #1. It may be possible to safely omit the sodium nitrate if you can get the water activity level of the sausage low enough before the sodium nitrite in the cure #1 is completely exhausted, but I don't know that for sure.
Tasso
Registered Member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:39 am
Location: Texas

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby Tasso » Tue May 20, 2014 3:41 pm

This page might have some useful info for you. Apparently there are some types of fermented sausages that can be safely made with only cure #1. There is a lot of info on that page to digest. I think it is important to consider it all before proceeding.

http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... ed-sausage
Tasso
Registered Member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:39 am
Location: Texas

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby senorkevin » Tue May 20, 2014 3:44 pm

Thanks I will look at it in a sec. I know I could cook the salami using # 1 but not sure about dry curing
An Englishman living in México.
There'e not such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer!
senorkevin
Registered Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Mexico

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby Tasso » Tue May 20, 2014 6:16 pm

I found several fermented dry or semi-dry sausages that use cure #1 only in Stan Marianski's book, The Art of Making Fermented Sausages. For example, Summer Sausage, Cervelat, Thuringer, a fast-fermented semi-dry type of Pepperoni, et. al.

Are you able to get the fermentation starter cultures you'll need, like T-SPX or F-LC?
Tasso
Registered Member
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:39 am
Location: Texas

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby ped » Wed May 21, 2014 5:29 am

If you can import from the US have you considered this? : http://www.sausagemaker.com/11080celeryjuicepowder.aspx

:wink:
ped
Registered Member
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 11:03 am
Location: Kent

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby senorkevin » Wed May 21, 2014 8:47 am

Yeah but nobody can say for sure it will pass customs
An Englishman living in México.
There'e not such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer!
senorkevin
Registered Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Mexico

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby wheels » Wed May 21, 2014 1:46 pm

It seems to me that if you can't get cure #2 or a nitrate based curing salt locally, and are not prepared to try to get it from elsewhere, then you're maybe best not making things that need long periods of curing.

Whilst there is some evidence that the effect of nitrite far outlives it being totally converted in the meat, and whilst I wouldn't consider not using nitrate to be an issue for an experienced salami maker, I wouldn't rely on the former, and you're not the latter. So for safety's sake, your probably best to stick to fresh sausage. If you can get cultures, or a pH testing kit if you use home-made cultures, you could make semi dry sausage as suggested above.

HTH

Phil
User avatar
wheels
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 12182
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: Leicestershire, UK

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby senorkevin » Wed May 21, 2014 2:13 pm

I spoke with a chemical engineer of foods and he said everyone here cures with #1. I didn't ask anymore about Ot as it sounds scary!
An Englishman living in México.
There'e not such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer!
senorkevin
Registered Member
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:47 pm
Location: Mexico

Re: Using cue #1 instead of #2?

Postby crustyo44 » Thu May 22, 2014 7:08 pm

Senor Kevin,
Listen to Phil's advise, it is sound. In Australia where I live we have probably the same climate as yours, hot most of the time and humid in Summer. In a climate as this, cure # 2 should be mandatory by law as it is here. Do remember that the results by not using it could be deadly as has been witnessed here.
If you can't get # 2, refrain from making charcuterie that requires long drying times.
Cheers,
Jan.
crustyo44
Registered Member
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:00 am
Location: Brisbane.Australia


Return to Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

cron