Some questions about making salami

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Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Fri May 15, 2015 2:17 pm

I've been making pepperoni for some time now using yogurt as the culture. Its pretty good as far as a pizza topping goes.
I'm using yogurt as culture as there are no commercial cultures available where I live.
I would now like to try stepping up my game to make an air dried salami. I'm thinking of pretty much using the tried and tested pepperoni recipe with a couple of adjustments.
My first question is, how can I regulate the sourness (pH drop) by adjusting the sugars. For pepperoni I'm using .33% dextrose, .825% milk powder, .41% sucrose. Fermented for 3 days at 30C. Gives a nice tang but isn't something I want from a salami.
Can anyone can give me some suggestions on what sugar to reduce and by how much.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby crustyo44 » Fri May 15, 2015 7:44 pm

There are plenty of good and trusted Salami recipes on the net and all my Italian friends still don't use any cure #2 and cultures.
Where I live the climate is very close to tropical and I always use cure #2 but no cultures due to a hot and humid climate. Safety comes first.
I have never seen dextrose, milk powder and /or sucrose used in any salami my friends made.
Do you have a curing chamber? or a fridge you can convert into one?
You can also try to use UMAi bags ( in Australia: Banquet bags, from www.mistygully.com.au)
If you need some tried and trusted old family salami recipes, just email me your address.
Regards,
Jan
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Sat May 16, 2015 6:30 am

Thanks for the fast reply. I will use the equivalent of cure #2 to be safe. And I will be doing the drying in a fridge with a temp control. I'm thinking between 5-10C. Humidity shouldn't be a problem here during the rainy season.

Without adding any sugar I'm concerned about the pH dropping enough in the fermentation period to ward of the bad bacteria. Is the pH drop absolutely necessary for a dry cured salami? Conversely, I'm also concerned that adding yogurt and sugar will drop the pH too quickly and not allow the flavour forming bacteria to survive.

Another question I have is: can trichnosis be dealt with solely by drying or do I absolutely have to freeze my meat.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby BriCan » Sat May 16, 2015 6:40 am

Weoochaun wrote:My first question is, how can I regulate the sourness


My question is .. why do you want sourness in Salame ?? :cry:
But what do I know
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby BriCan » Sat May 16, 2015 6:54 am

Weoochaun wrote:Thanks for the fast reply. I will use the equivalent of cure #2 to be safe. And I will be doing the drying in a fridge with a temp control. I'm thinking between 5-10C.


5C is great, I do this 'all' the time ... Humidity swings from 75% to 85%

Humidity shouldn't be a problem here during the rainy season.

Without adding any sugar


What is your recipe?

I'm concerned about the pH dropping enough in the fermentation period to ward of the bad bacteria. Is the pH drop absolutely necessary for a dry cured salami?


I myself have never worried about pH drop, saying that I never test for it

Fermentation, ... 20 degrees C for curing and 90 – 95% humidity for two (2) days minimum – better in seven (7) days

Conversely, I'm also concerned that adding yogurt and sugar will drop the pH too quickly and not allow the flavour forming bacteria to survive.

Another question I have is: can trichnosis be dealt with solely by drying or do I absolutely have to freeze my meat.


I would not rely on the drying aspect but would and you should freeze for Trichinosis
But what do I know
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Sun May 17, 2015 3:21 am

Thank you Mr BriCan.
You're right I don't want to have a sour salami, that is what I'm trying to avoid, my first post was a bit ambiguous. However I keep hearing that this initial fermentation period should take the pH down to 5.2 at least; in order to serve as a front line defense against bad bacteria.

My recipe for pepperoni will only be used to guide me. I have quite a lot of time to consider the final ingredients as the meat only went into the freezer this yesterday morning.

Pepperoni
Lean pork 11000
Lean beef 4890
Back fat 3660
NO2 2.7
Salt 450
Dextrose 72
Non fat milk powder 180
Black pepper 90
Paprika 125
Chilli 125
Fennel 110
Garlic (crushed) 250
Sucrose 90
Water 600
Yogurt 1.5 cup

3 days 30C ferment. Water bath 140-160C for 3 hours.

For the the salami I will change the spices a bit and leave out the water and probably the yogurt (all or some of it, as yet undecided)
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby BriCan » Sun May 17, 2015 7:45 am

These are two recipes that I have made this last couple of weeks at/for work

Using a spice combination that was my late mentor's

Salt, Cure#2, Spice, Corn syrup solids, Rum

Image

Cervelat Salame

Salt, Cure#2, White pepper, Mustard seed, Cardamom, Corn syrup solids, Rum

Image
But what do I know
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Sun May 17, 2015 11:25 am

Which one was tastier?

I'm looking for something reminiscent of Italy and with quite a strong flavour.

I think that a naturally fermented salami will give me the 'strong' flavour compared to the commercial products that I've been able to get in SE Asia. Probably incorporate some fennel but not sure yet. Not actually that keen on liquorish taste but trying to Italianise it.

My freezer is reading -18 -20C so I may only have to wait a week to be safe!
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby herjac » Sun May 17, 2015 12:33 pm

If you want to have less tang in your sausage then you need to reduce the amount of sugar that ferments. Most recipes call for approx 0.5% sugar and you have 0.82% !!!! Plus you have milk powder which I understand also ferments.. I have been using a 0.4% total blend of sucrose and dextrose on my mild salami with success.

I would suggest that you make a small batch to experiment first before attempting a large 20 kg batch as you indicate. 8)
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Sun May 17, 2015 3:32 pm

Thanks Herjak

Its beginning to make sense now.

I'm thinking that the dextrose is going to be used first which is a good thing to bring the pH down to a safeish level. In my pepperoni the milk powder (50% sugar) was originally used for a binder and the sucrose was used for taste.

I will omit the milk powder (hope that it binds well) and the sucrose. That will leave me with about .5% sugar as a proportion of meat weight. Hope that that amount wont make it sour.

I will do about 10 Kg for my first run. My mixer wont touch anything less.

Sorry about the recipe measurements but I buy the meat by Viss which is about 1.63 Kg
Last edited by Weoochaun on Sun May 17, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Sun May 17, 2015 3:33 pm

Thanks for all your advice.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby NCPaul » Sun May 17, 2015 8:15 pm

Is there any chance of a pH meter where you are? If I was selling to the public, I would want some measure that things were right.
Fashionably late will be stylishly hungry.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Swing Swang » Sun May 17, 2015 9:44 pm

BriCan wrote:I would not rely on the drying aspect but would and you should freeze for Trichinosis


This may give the greatest reassurance, but I note that, according to Marianski & Marianski, that when salting at 3.33lb per cwt that fermented/dried sausage is effective at killing trichinella sp after 14-50 days in the drying room (time depends on casing diameter).
- see pp 254-255, The art of making fermented sausages, Marianski & Marianski where they reprint the US regulations for the treatment of pork to destroy trichinae.

Reducing salt content below 3.33% requires an increase in drying time and this explained in the same document.
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Weoochaun » Mon May 18, 2015 2:17 am

I would love to get a pH meter but not available here. I often go to Thailand but also cannot find one there. Maybe I will order one and get it sent to a friend in Thailand. Any recommendations?

I also saw some advice on drying to eliminate trichinella here:
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/meat-a ... 0451132888
Found it a little difficult to get it sorted in my head!

3.3% salt seems quite a lot. At the moment I'm using 2.3% by meat weight. Will probably up it to 3%

Advice on freezing here:
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/meat-a ... 0459906560
and here:
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/trichinae/ ... _sheet.htm
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Re: Some questions about making salami

Postby Swing Swang » Mon May 18, 2015 12:03 pm

3.3% is too much for my tastebuds, but the subsequent tables in the document referred to show the adjustment required for different concentrations (from memory for example, reducing salt to 2.5% requires and extra 14 days drying).
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