Yogurt for starter?

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Yogurt for starter?

Postby kevster » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:09 am

Hi all :)
I know the subject has come up before, but the articles I've found don't seem to point to a definitive answer. I'm looking for an alternative to the commercial freeze dried meat starter cultures (it is the shipping cost that puts me off as much as the cost of the starter :roll: ) and found the follwing link that discusses yogurt as a starter.....does anyone use yogurt successfully? Of are there better (cheap) ways to make a starter? I do so little curing that most of the commercial pack would go to waste.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4007002343
Cheers,
Kev
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Postby the chorizo kid » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:29 am

both yogurt and saurkraut juice have been suggested as alternatives. but.....? anyway, i had the same problem with shipping costs and short storage life for the commercial starters. let me suggest: go to a health food or upscale organic market. look for a bottle of PURE acidophilus powder. mine cost about $28/bottle. i use 1/4 tsp/# meat, and whatever sugar the recipe calls for. i have tried it on most recipes in the marianski book. it has been in my refrigerator for almost 2 years with no signs of problems. the sausage taste is great, although i cannot compare it to the commercial starter since i have never seen fit to use that. it is much better than the instant sour tang of the vacuum wrapped supermarket summer sausages/salamis that are sold at room temperature. i do not think you willl be disappointed.
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Postby grisell » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:16 am

I have used yoghurt as a starter all the time. Always worked for me. Once I used sauerkraut juice. It works the same way (but the sauerkraut must be unpasteurized!).
André

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Postby kevster » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:15 pm

Thanks....I will look out for some (preferably not stawberry ir banana....shich seems to be common :roll: )
kev
the chorizo kid wrote:both yogurt and saurkraut juice have been suggested as alternatives. but.....? anyway, i had the same problem with shipping costs and short storage life for the commercial starters. let me suggest: go to a health food or upscale organic market. look for a bottle of PURE acidophilus powder. mine cost about $28/bottle. i use 1/4 tsp/# meat, and whatever sugar the recipe calls for. i have tried it on most recipes in the marianski book. it has been in my refrigerator for almost 2 years with no signs of problems. the sausage taste is great, although i cannot compare it to the commercial starter since i have never seen fit to use that. it is much better than the instant sour tang of the vacuum wrapped supermarket summer sausages/salamis that are sold at room temperature. i do not think you willl be disappointed.
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Postby kevster » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:16 pm

I think I'll give the yoghurt one a go then.....do you add lactose for the lactobacillus to use?
Thanks
Kev
grisell wrote:I have used yoghurt as a starter all the time. Always worked for me. Once I used sauerkraut juice. It works the same way (but the sauerkraut must be unpasteurized!).
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Postby kevster » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:29 pm

Just wondered....is it posible to cut out the middle man and just add lactic acid to the meat? Food-grade lactic acid is sold by brewing shops.
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Postby grisell » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:08 pm

kevster wrote:I think I'll give the yoghurt one a go then.....do you add lactose for the lactobacillus to use?
Thanks
Kev


No, dextrose. Caster sugar works too. I don't have any experience with lactose.
André

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Postby grisell » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:09 pm

kevster wrote:Just wondered....is it posible to cut out the middle man and just add lactic acid to the meat? Food-grade lactic acid is sold by brewing shops.
Kev


Probably. I'm not sure. :?
André

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Postby wheels » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:33 pm

There's a UK commercial producer who uses Yakult:

http://charcutieranglais.blogspot.com/2 ... lture.html

It may be a better option. If you use yogurt, try to get a locally made one that's fresh. Although marked as 'live', I've had yogurt from UK supermarkets that was as dead as a Dodo when it came to using it as a culture for further yogurt-making.

Phil
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Postby kimgary » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Think wheels beat me to it:-

http://www.yakult.co.uk/


regards Gazza.
http://www.actimel.co.uk/About/Actimel.aspx
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Postby the chorizo kid » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:28 am

regarding yogurt, i have never tried it. but, i do have to ask, considering how cheap yogurt is, why would commercial sausage makers go to the expense of using a starter cutlure? why would marianski use a starter culture? i am only suggesting that a cheap and easy-to-store pure bacterial starter is the acidophilus powder. but if yogurt works for you, then by all means go for it.
as for pure lactic acid, i can only speculate, but it seems that making your own lactic acid using a starter + dextrose might add more complex flavors, due to byproducts of the gradual and stepwise acid synthesis, which you would not get by adding a dollop of pure lactic acid. this is only a guess. again, if pure acid were an adequate substitute, then why would the commercial people not use it, since they care primarily about profit and secondarily about quality? time is certailny money, and adding the acid directly would save the fermentation time. only a guess, of course. i'm sure the experts know the answer.
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Postby grisell » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:37 am

Chorizo kid: I don't think that starter cultures are expensive when bought in quantity. In breweries, the cost of yeast is negligible after what I've heard. You're probably right about the lactic acid. One would lose the complex flavours. It's the same with alcohol beverages - imagine a wine being made from grape juice and alcohol... :shock:
André

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Postby the chorizo kid » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:56 pm

andre
you're right about the cost in bulk fcr commercial producers. the problem for me/us is that the minimum amount i can buy is enough starter for 500# of sausage, which is about 492# more than i need in 6 months [that being the storage life of the starter]. it would work out to about $5-6 per salami just for the starter. this is especially bad, since the starter company has an office right here in milwaukee, but they will not sell small amounts [or any amounts] to the general public. in my opinion, good public relations would dictate otherwise. therefore, i elected to go for a pure lactobacillus powder; much cheaper, and with a longer shelf life. good results, too. no kidding about grape juice and pure alcohol!

werner
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Postby BriCan » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:38 pm

grisell wrote: I don't think that starter cultures are expensive when bought in quantity. In breweries, the cost of yeast is negligible after what I've heard.

I have no idea what the cost of starter cultures are [as I do not use them], saying that you have got me curious so will make a call after the holiday this weekend.

You're probably right about the lactic acid. One would lose the complex flavours.

This is the biggest problem with using starter cultures, as you have already surmised the big commercial fellows use it for profit and as a precaution against things going wrong [remember, the more we rush through things the more likely we are to make mistakes]. Again I must say hear and now, if you do not know what you are doing then use the starter cultures.

It's the same with alcohol beverages - imagine a wine being made from grape juice and alcohol... :shock:

Its funny you should mention that, I drink wine that is made by Italians that taste far better than any I buy at the liquor store :lol: :lol:

Just my 2p worth :?
But what do I know
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Postby crustyo44 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:40 am

Hi Werner,
Thank you for the acidophilus culture advise. I will be trying to source it here locally.
Best Regards,
Jan.
Brisbane.
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