Double-Grind worth the time?

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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby JerBear » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:55 pm

Definatly based on the recipe... I made a new recipe last week that just felt too heavy and added the water just to loosen the mix up. I'm in the range of about 150-250 mL for every 10 lbs of meat. I believe the chicken already had more inherent water as the mix was much looser than the pork from the onset. Cooked up great though.
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby vagreys » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:49 pm

JerBear, I double grind for a couple of reasons. First, I get less smear; and second, I get better grinding.

BriCan is getting very fresh pork. Those of us getting pork more than about 48 hours after slaughter, or from a store, might benefit from adding a little liquid. I add about 1 oz per pound, depending on the freshness of the pork, and how much liquid it has retained. My pork is not injected, so there is are no saline or phosphates added before it comes to me. I use the liquid to better distribute the salt, and I do find that I get a more uniform result, and I think it also feeds through the stuffer a little easier. I do not add water to chicken sausages. I think the chicken is wet enough, as is, and doesn't require additional liquid for rapid/uniform distribution of the salt.

Here's what I do in my home, generally:

I trim the lean from the fat to assess and adjust fat content. I slice the shoulders into 1" slabs and par-freeze for about 80 minutes before cubing into large cubes (1" or 1 1/2" cubes). If it is a warm day, I'll put the cubes back in the freezer to keep them par-frozen for better grinding (another 30-60 minutes, depending on the day - wish I had a cold room, at home). Then, I run them through the primary grind (1/2" plate). At this point, I add the salted water, if needed, or just the salt, and seasonings. The coarse grind makes it easy to mix the seasonings throughout the meat, and because I'm using minimal liquid, and the coarse ground meat presents a large surface area, the meat takes up the water/liquid, readily and quickly. After brief mixing, the meat has usually warmed up enough that I prefer to return the meat to chill, so the fat stays good and cold. It also improves resistance and grinding when I run the meat through final grind, and I get less smear, less mashing of the meat, and better feeding through the grinder. Also, my spices are thoroughly mixed through the meat and uniform. Myosin and actin activity have already started, and I can immediately stuff into casing with a great texture.

Were I able to keep the meat in a commercial cooler, and work in a cold room, I wouldn't have to repeatedly chill the meat to keep it good and cold, but my reality is that I'm working in a residential kitchen with residential equipment, in central Virginia, where the summers are hot and humid. It does take longer to do the double grind, but in my experience, and based on my consumer feedback, it is well worth it.

I know it's not truly commercial, yet, but that's my take.
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby JerBear » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 pm

I would think that BriCan's pork is older than 2 days but younger than the stuff you have access to in the grocery store. But I'm basing that more on the beef industry where the carcass normally goes into and then out of rigor mortis before being broken down. That said, I'm also purchasing my pork from a commercial restaurant supplier by the case (though I'm sure nowhere as close to the quantity BriCan's buying).

Most recipes I've made call for a certain quantity of liquid and typically the liquid will serve a dual-purpose. The first is a flavor enhancer as it's normally something like hot sauce, milk, beer, wine, stock or the like. Sometimes it’s water but I would say that's the exception. The second, as has been discussed is that it makes the casings easier to fill. I agree that my recent foray into chicken sausages I didn't need to add the liquid for moisture content but it was added for flavor to no discernible detriment.

I don't seem to be having a lot of issue with what I would consider smear but I'll try to take a couple pictures and/or video tonight and submit for consideration. Everything seems to come out of the grinder in nice fashion. I am working in a commercial kitchen at it can get pretty hot in there (I'd also prefer to work in a cold room) but what is on deck to be worked on next is on ice and what is in line after that is in the walk-in. Freezer space is at a premium....

Edit: As far as actin and myosin are concerned I've got a little when I'm done with my second grind and normally have to hand mix for about 2-3 minutes to get the sticky I'm looking for.
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby DiggingDogFarm » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:00 am

I've never had good luck with a single grind, I think that the less resistance you have in the grinder, the better.
I usually prefer a courser sausage so I typically cube, chill and then grind through a 3/4" plate..add salt, cure and spices along with any liquid, then I chill in the fridge for at least 12 hours, then regrind, usually through a 3/8" plate, if I want a finer textured sausage, I'll grind just half of the mix through the 3/8" plate a second time, then I'll stuff immediately.
I never have a problem with smear.
In my case cubing and chilling take the most time, I've considered rigging up a blast chiller of some sort.



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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby BriCan » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:16 am

JerBear wrote:I would think that BriCan's pork is older than 2 days but younger than the stuff you have access to in the grocery store.


The actual fact is that I am very luck in a sense my supplier is 80 clicks down the road (an hours drive) and is a slaughterhouse that processes pigly wiglys :lol: :lol:

http://www.johnstons.ca/

in fact my pork is usually 24 hours old which conforms to regulations, the other thing that Vagreys noted is because my pork is fresh it tends to have a 'natural' high liquid content which is missing from the pork most home users use


But I'm basing that more on the beef industry where the carcass normally goes into and then out of rigor mortis before being broken down.


Beef depending on the plant/slaughterhouse rigor mortis for cattle is a minimum of 24 hours (if they want to push things out fast), in my days we was looking at closer to 48 hours. Pork on the other hand can be killed in the morning and out the door the following a lot less than 24 hours

That said, I'm also purchasing my pork from a commercial restaurant supplier by the case


The one thing I have notice it that on the outsides of the box's are no date/time reference so in essence one has a hard time knowing how old this type of pork is. Please understand I am not knocking where you are getting your pork from only just trying to point out all the facts of the trade.

There is another slaughterhouse closer than the one I use

http://www.donaldsfinefoods.com/langleyhog.php

these guys are right besides a company that some of you readers might be familiar with

http://www.stuffers.com/

so in fact these guys are only 36 clicks (30 minuets) --- it all comes down to the pork :wink:

(though I'm sure nowhere as close to the quantity BriCan's buying).


Hey listen, its not my fault that they all love my bacon :shock: --- keep on doing wot you are doing and you will be right up there with me :lol: :lol:
But what do I know
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:48 pm

Robert, really surprised to hear you never add water. That's really interesting, I have never really considered that it diluted any flavours as I dont think of most spice/herb mixes being water soluble.

I add water, or other liquids almost always (not just in rusk recipes), often even dissolve the salt in it first to make a kind of salmuera, as this helps ensure the salt get into every part of the mix and can be readily drawn into the paste.

This is all despite the meat being about as fresh as it can be. It lives within a few yards of the cutting room!

Interested to hear whether others consider water a no no and if so for what reason
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby wheels » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:30 pm

I'm not wanting to enter this debate, as I have little to contribute. However, can I ask, do you use your pork the day it's killed QWF?

The meat I get locally is sort of killed friday: collected Tuesday, Killed Monday: collected Thursday sort of thing?

Phil
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:03 am

We always hang for a while. Kill generally on a thursday/friday and cut monday. Sows a little longer is best.
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby wheels » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:34 pm

Thanks QWF.

Phil
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:57 pm

back on thread -

Big Guys recipe in the link near the top looks great, has anyone else done this? I'm wondering about a smoked link too and whether that would work as well as a sliced chub?

got to say too, I dont like the sound of Attamate much, or hydrolysed veg proteins generally :shock:

Its to get away from ingredients like these that I love the whole home made sausage movement so much. I know they often contribute to a particular flavour that people maybe trying to recreate, but it would more often than not tend to be a favourite 'commercial & highly processed' brand that requires such things to mimic. There are plenty of healthy fillers and binders available before resorting to chemically stripped soya mush.

Each to their own for sure, but not for me thanks :D
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:39 pm

or should i say 'back on the wrong thread!! :)
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby JerBear » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:45 am

Wheels - I hope this isn't coming across as a debate. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can as I have enough knowledge to get myself into trouble but not always enough to get out of it. Also, I don't have too many local options to glom onto to learn more and I'll need as much education as possible if I hope to improve my processes and move to the next level of production.

QWF - you got me, I scrolled up, back down, checked page one, thought, "hey, wasn't that just in another discussion I was reading?" :lol:
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby wheels » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:35 pm

JerBear wrote:Wheels - I hope this isn't coming across as a debate... :lol:


Nah! That was just to excuse my 'off-thread' post! :oops: :oops: :lol:
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Re: Double-Grind worth the time?

Postby St-Anthony » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:43 am

I have been a meat cutter/sausage maker since 1972 and the way I was thought to make grinds in butcher school (and this was the standard way to do things in every butcher shop in those days) is to grind the meat once with the coarse plate and then re-grind the meat with to the wanted size plate. The reason for this is very simple: when meat is ground with the small plate it gets warmer by 6 degrees F so if your cooler runs at 35-36 degrees, your over the bacteria proliferation temperature of 40F. This is one of the major reason why ground meats turns green inside after being in the fridge for only 2 days. Also when trimmings are being forced through the small plate, fat tends to paste. When I make grinds in my shop, I grind the meat once through the coarse plate then I let the meat rest for 10 minutes to let it go back to 35 degrees. I then run it through the fine plate. In the fridge, my grinds are kept for too long, they will turn grey from the outside in and not from the inside out.

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