Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Recipes and techniques using brine.

Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby GiannisK » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:57 pm

Hi all, I’ have studied many articles and topics about brines and nitrite ppm in wet cure but I’ m really confused.
I have made this recipe (with full success):
http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Pro ... 0Cotto.pdf
I made the brine, I pumped the meat with 10% (meat’s weight) of brine and after this, I covered the meat with the remaining brine for 3 days.
How was the ppt with this method? How nitrite and ppt take the meat with this method (after pumping and 3 days later after immersion)?
I made and this recipe (with full success):
http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Can ... on-Len.pdf
In this recipe I used only! 5.8g cure#1 (very little amount) … and I have full success!!!
I made the brine, I pumped the meat with 10% (meat’s weight) of brine and after this, I covered the meat with the remaining brine for 3 days.
How was the ppt with this method? How nitrite and ppt take the meat with this method (after pumping and 3 days later after immersion)?
Had I success in the first recipe when I had used the brine from the second recipe?
Please help me with some examples because I have read many different things….. 

thank you
Giannis
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby NCPaul » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:54 pm

The first recipe doesn't call for a 10 % brine injection, only a short time in the brine. I calculate the nitrite in the brine in the first recipe at 870 ppm and at 167 ppm in the second. After that, everything gets complicated. :D If you have the ability to inject brine, it's easier to use captain wassname's 6 % injection process.

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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby wheels » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:12 pm

As Paul says, the first recipe isn't for injection, it's an immersion cure. And I agree with him about captain wassname's injection method, although i regularly use a 10% injection cure for ham.

I disagree slightly with the ppm calculation.

For the first recipe with 2720gm meat, as an immersion cure at full equilibrium, I calculate the ppm to be 483ppm. As it is only cured for 3 days in total, I'd estimate the final ppm ingoing to be in the region of 150 - 300ppm. If the recipe was used as a 10% pump injection cure, I calculate the ppm to be 86ppm.

The second recipe is designed as an injection cure and was used as such. Injected, it calculates to 17ppm. However, the recipe states that for 2 quarts it is 146ppm; this leads me to believe that there is a 'typo' and that the cure #1 amount should read 50.8gm rather than 5.8gm.

Phil
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby GiannisK » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:14 pm

I have made and the 2 recipes. I have excellent optical and tasty results....

In the second recipe after njection 10% i put the meat in the remaining pickle for 3 1/2 days. It was safe?
How is the totally nitrite ppm in 3rd day? How many nitrite ppm added in 86ppm (by injection)?

I have made calculations (method 2) and i have seen that that the necessary and safe cure#1 is (with all other the same):
in 1st recipe 10,5 gr (146 nitrite ppm)
in 2st recipe 19 gr (190 nitrite ppm)

i have read this and in another one forum which there is and an universal cure calculator.

If i'll use this amount of cure#1 (all the other the same) -with at first 10% injection and after immersion in the remaining brine - is error?

Another last question. I have read that for ham and bacon we need 60 degrees brine's strength. In the 2 recipes the brines are more weaker. Why? It's right?

thank you
Giannis
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby wheels » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:52 pm

Good questions.

To answer your last question first, I aim for a 10% brine when curing, just to give protection during long immersion cures. For these cures, both of which are less than 3 days, it doesn't seem significant. Also, it would mean that you couldn't do lower salt products without soaking the meat in fresh water after curing.

As to the rest, I'm having a little difficulty understanding what exactly you want to know?

What I can tell you is that, in my opinion, the second recipe will be perfectly safe as long as it is treated as a fresh product.

HTH

Phil
The second recipe
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby quietwatersfarm » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:41 pm

Further to all of this, and having been recently reminded of all teh good work done here (especially by NCPaul and others) on cure uptake - did we ever end up with the data that would allow for some sort of graph of uptake/time based on strength? just thinking out loud :)
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:25 pm

*watches as the tumbleweed rolls by*

take that as a no then? :) :)
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby wheels » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:24 pm

sorry, I've got a lousy cold so haven't been online. Writing's hard on this bloomin' laptop - but no I don't think that further tests were done.

Phil
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:28 pm

get well soon Phil...I was wondering if anything else got done.
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby NCPaul » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:09 pm

I might be able to slip a small project through at work. We'll have to see.
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby quietwatersfarm » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:36 pm

Wow, that would be great Paul,
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby NCPaul » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:44 pm

First calibration curve done. :D
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby DanMcG » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:50 pm

NCPaul wrote:First calibration curve done. :D

:mrgreen: looking forward to anything you come up with Paul
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Re: Brines, wet cure, ppt nitrite calculations pls..help...

Postby wheels » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:16 pm

Superb, it'll be great to have two sets of figures to work from. It'll be a real help.

Phil :D :D :D
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