HFW salt beef recipe.. is the saltpetre too much ?

Recipes and techniques using brine.

HFW salt beef recipe.. is the saltpetre too much ?

Postby andyb » Fri May 25, 2007 8:23 am

Hi

I have but some foreflank into brine to make salt beef following HFW's recipe in the meat book,
the quantity of saltpetre seems rather large ,what is the opinion of the learned readers of this forum ?

recipe

5 litres water
500g demerera sugar
1.5 kg sea salt
1 tsp pepper
1 tsp juniper berries
4 bay leaves
50g saltpetre


using a 2-3kg piece of beef (brisket or foreflank)
brine for 5-10 days, then soak for 24-48 hours in fresh water and boil in a court bouillon for 2.5- 3 hours.

thanks

Andy
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Postby Spuddy » Sat May 26, 2007 9:47 pm

Looks far too much to me.

I would say 10 grams is more appropriate for the brine quantity and meat weight given.
Having said that I think that's too much salt too, might need a good soaking before cooking.
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Postby wheels » Sun May 27, 2007 6:31 pm

Hi
The jury seems to be out on whether it's too salty see forum.rivercottage.net/viewtopic.php?t=11849&highlight=beef+salty
Hope this helps

Phil
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Postby andyb » Mon May 28, 2007 9:52 am

thanks for that, i do intend to soak it before use as i have experienced HFW's salt overload before !
Spuddy, do you think that level of saltpetre is dangerous ? I assumed it would be okay as the book has been out for some time and nobody seems to have died !

andy
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Postby wheels » Mon May 28, 2007 7:47 pm

Andy
I guess that Oddley was obviously concerned about this see:
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=437
and:
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=1113
You will see that he recalculated the recipe:
In the one you have just posted the amount of saltpetre will give 2256 ppm or mg/kg ingoing. Which in my opinion is far to much. here is a converted recipe for 1 liter of water, I have just divided the rest by 1/5th and custom worked out the saltpetre.

Quote:
1 litre of water
100g demerera /light brown sugar
200g coarse sea salt
1/5 tsp black peppercorns
1/5 tsp juniper berries
1 clove
1 bay leaves
a small sprig of thyme
1/5 a bunch of parsley stalks
4g saltpetre (307 ppm).


He also advises curing for 14 to 20 days for a piece of meat 4 inches in diameter (boned and rolled) and about 9 inches long.

Based on the PPM figure for saltpetre he is assuming a 10% pump. If this cure was used to cure to equilibrium the amounts would need adjusting according to the weight of meat - (according to the US PROCESSING INSPECTORS' CALCULATIONS HANDBOOK).

Given the length of time the HFW meat is in the cure (5-10 days for 2-3kg) it seems doubtful that it this would apply and it is probably questionable as to whether HFW's would pick-up anything like 10%.

Given the amount of concern and questions about this cure it may be best to err on the side of caution and use Oddley's (You will need to visit ebay and get a syringe to pump the meat) - that's what I did and with minor amendments it's great for me.

Phil
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Postby andyb » Mon May 28, 2007 10:24 pm

thanks for those links wheels,

sadly it is too late the meat is already in the brine (50g of saltpetre and all),
just hope I don't have to chuck it out !

Andy
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Postby saucisson » Tue May 29, 2007 12:07 am

I would pull it out and put it into a lower salt petre mix ASAP

It'll have had a good old fashioned 19th Century dose, but now bring it into the 21st Century with a sensible level :D

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Postby Spuddy » Tue May 29, 2007 10:04 pm

@ Andyb

Don't worry, that amount won't harm you if you don't make a habit of it.
Some of these older recipes were designed to allow meats to be stored for long periods without refrigeration so the salt and nitrate levels are higher than necessary these days.
Give it a good soak in plain water for 24 hours (change the water a couple of times) before cooking and that'll help to reduce the salt and nitrate content.
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Postby andyb » Tue May 29, 2007 10:07 pm

phew, thanks very much for that.
puts my mind at ease.

Andy
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Postby wheels » Tue May 29, 2007 11:13 pm

AndyB
I think you can also take comfort in the fact that most modern cure calculations are based on a 8-10% take up of cure.
I have just weighed a 2.5kg piece of ham that has been in cure for 9 days and the weight has increased by 60g which at a rough calculation is under 3% take up of cure.
If your beef behaves in the same manner then it will be perfectly safe by both British and US standards with just over 200PPM Nitrate.
I try to cure complying with the standards advised by the government scientists - however, until recently I had two relatives - both 100 years old, who had eaten bacon etc., cured with liberal application of saltpetre (much home-cured). It didn't seem to shorten their lives!!

That said, Saltpetre and particularly Potassium Nitrite are dangerous - the best advice I can offer is to use cures that have been formulated by the guys on this site who have thoroughly researched the subject.

Hope this helps

Phil
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Postby andyb » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:51 pm

Hi Wheels

Thanks for that, I normally try to use recipes recommended or formulated by the boffins on this site, I couldn't find an immersion cure for salt beef so I have used Hfw's which by the way is delicious (better cold)..

cheers

Andy
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Postby wheels » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:01 pm

Andy
Glad it turned out OK.

The warnings on many of the cures that they shouldn't be used as immersion cures resulting in a lack of immersion cures on the forum is the very reason I have changed to using a "pump" method of curing. The FDA Inspectors Handbook (American) that many fellow forum users follow to calculate cures has only one method of calculation for "dry" and "pumped" products but two for immersion curing. It is also a little ambiguous about which one to use. As the amounts of cure etc vary tremendously depending on the method chosen it seemed to me easier to follow a "pumped" method to be sure I wasn't poisoning anyone!
I have to say, I have been very pleased with the results so far, and with the speed of curing. This method also allows me to continue to use many of Oddleys cure formulations which I would be otherwise unable to do.

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