salt beef - help...

Recipes and techniques using brine.

salt beef - help...

Postby niv » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:56 pm

hi,
first of all thanks for taking the time to help me

after recentally travelling in london i passeed by a deli in brickland and ate a salt beef bagel from that day all my toubles have begun

i can't stop thinking about opening a salt beef bagel shop

i have tried about 5-6 times each time i end up trowing away a 2 kg peice of brisket.

this is how i have tried to make salt beef:

2.5 kg briskete
4 lt water
625 gr salt
350 gr brown sugar
1 tbsp cruskep ppercorns
1tbsp corianders seeds
10 all spice kernels
4 bay leaves
thyme - few springs
1 garlic

**** today i found salt peter!!!!! havn't tried using it - please advice me how much to put

cooking method:
put all the ingrediants into a pan bioled, cooled the brine, poured over the meat in a plastic - sealed contianer. flipped side every day for 10 days.
put the meat in a pan with bioling water and bioled for 4 hours
=
hard, dry, brown faul tasting meat - tastes like i took a really salty peice of meat and bioled in water..........

i have been reading as many threads as possible trying to find a solution - but cant really put the peaces toghether

(i have wrote 2 private messages) sorry if i bugged to many people...
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Postby Oddley » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:20 pm

Here is the recipe I use all the time. I have had PM's from people saying they now use it. So it can't be that bad.
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questions.....

Postby niv » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:51 am

Thanks!!!thanks thanks

i appreciate yor help and have a few more questions if possible:

1 - after pumping the meat, i need to make the brine? how much water?

2- if so - i do the dry cure to the meat then place it in the container and pour the brine over it?
and leave for 10 days - flipping every day

3 - in the pot cooking method: - the inside temperature refers to the meat or water

4 - i understand the percentage in the pumping section, but i don't understand "Insoluble ingredients for brine: Usage 2.2 % of brine " what does that mean - how would i do the math for a 2 kilo brisket

5 - when i order brisket from my butcher it is thin at one end and a bit thicker at the other end. but i havent had a piece the was thicker than an inch- inch and a half, and in the pictures the meat always seems so thick????
am i using the wrong peice of meat. im using number 3 like in the link

http://aux.shenkar.ac.il/2004/group25/BeefGuide.html

I can't thank you enough!!!!
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Postby Oddley » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:10 am

First of all, you make up a brine to pump into the meat, at a rate of 10%. If you had a piece of brisket of 2.5Kg you would inject into it 250g of made up brine.

Oddley wrote:To be pumped at 10% of meat weight

Ingredient

% Percent
76.075 % water
15 % Sea Salt
7.5 % Sugar
1.275 % Cure #1 (75 ppm)
0.15 % Saltpetre (150 ppm)

Bring to the boil the water in a large saucepan add all the ingredients except the cure #1 and saltpetre. Stir well over a low heat until the sugar and salt have dissolved allow to boil for 1-2 minutes, remove from the heat, cool completely. Then add Cure #1 and saltpetre, stir until completely dissolved.


niv wrote:4 - i understand the percentage in the pumping section, but i don't understand "Insoluble ingredients for brine: Usage 2.2 % of brine " what does that mean - how would i do the math for a 2 kilo brisket


Oddley wrote:Insoluble ingredients for brine: Usage 2.2 % of brine
Ingredients

% Percent
2.8409 % Black peppercorns
4.4318 % Juniper berries
1.7045 % cloves
1.7045 % whole Coriander seeds
89.3182 % bunch parsley stalks


Taking the above case of 2.5Kg meat and 250g of brine to be pumped. We would add to that 2.2% of the brine spices, ie 2.2% of 250g brine = 5.5g. So that would mean that whilst boiling the salt and sugar in the brine to be pumped, we would add.

    0.2 g Black peppercorns
    0.2 g Juniper berries
    0.1 g cloves
    0.1 g whole Coriander seeds
    5 g fresh parsley stalks


You don't have to be to pedantic with the brine spices, the 2.2% is just a guideline.

niv wrote:1 - after pumping the meat, i need to make the brine? how much water?

2- if so - i do the dry cure to the meat then place it in the container and pour the brine over it?
and leave for 10 days - flipping every day


Please read the recipe carefully. This is a pump and dry rub method cure. After pumping with 10% brine and dry rubbing, you put the meat into a food safe container in the bottom of the fridge, for the required amount of curing time. There is no brine or anything else added at this stage.

Oddley wrote:Dry cure

Of meat weight

% Percent
1.5% Salt
0.75% Sugar
0.1274 % Cure #1 (75 ppm)
0.015% Saltpetre (150 ppm)

Pump meat at 10% meat weight. Then rub outside of meat with the dry cure. Vac pack or put into a zip lock bag for about 10 days. Then cook or freeze.


niv wrote:5 - when i order brisket from my butcher it is thin at one end and a bit thicker at the other end. but i havent had a piece the was thicker than an inch- inch and a half, and in the pictures the meat always seems so thick????
am i using the wrong peice of meat. im using number 3 like in the link


I mostly always use silverside joints of beef.
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Postby wheels » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:49 pm

I use silverside or brisket for salt beef - both are excellent.

Brisket is no 3 on your chart, I think silverside is number 19.

Phil
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last question before testing...

Postby niv » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:41 pm

you save me every time :lol:

when cooking the meat do i keep it in the vacum sealed bag? (there are special bags for cooking in high temparature

thanks
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Postby Oddley » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:53 pm

I normally pressure cook my corned beef. I have pot cooked it and it needs long slow cooking, say 2-3 hours. I would take the meat out of the vacuum bag wash it off then put it with the spices into a pot of boiling water, then bring it back to a simmer.

After washing the meat you could I suppose re-vacuum pack the meat and cook it. It is really up to you to get the best from the meat.
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Postby grisell » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:38 pm

Keep in mind safety issues when cooking in vacuum! (Anaerobic bacteria)
André

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Postby NCPaul » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:15 am

Oddley's formulation works great. His formula that starts by asking how much meat do you have? Everything calculates from that; this to me, is much easier than ratioing all the ingredients from different sizes of raw meat (though it makes it harder to write the recipe). I was given a meat syringe specifically to make this and it was well worth it. You can also braise it in the oven in some chicken stock if you prefer. I had it on rye bread with Swiss cheese.
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