Corned Beef - Cure 1 amount - URGENT!

[djrpowell]

Hi,

Guys I am not sure if anyone can help me here. I need some very specific advice.

I have bought some Cure 1 from http://www.sausagemaking.org to use for various things. I am trying to make Corned Beef using the Cure but I am not sure that instructions on packet are correct.

It states that you use 2.5g per 1kg of meat. Hence for my rolled beef brisket at 2.2kg I would use about 5.5g of product.

However, my recipe from my US based book which calls for "pink salt" is....

2.25kg beef brisket.
4 litres water
450g Kosher Salt (normal stuff)
100g sugar
25g pink salt (Cure 1 - nitrate)
Garlic & herbs and Spices.
Brine for 5 days in total

My issue is that evidently this recipe uses about 5 times the Cure 1 as Sausgage Maker suggests.

I currently have made up a brine with only 5.5g of Cure 1 in as I don't want to kill me and the family, but is that correct.

I am thinking that if not enougth I will just get grey meat, but too much will kill me.

Does anyone have any SPECIFIC experience of using Cure 1 / pink salt which you have bought from Sausage Making.

Also a reply within 24 hours would be really good as I need to drop it in.

Also the recipe states brine for 5 days, has anyone got a comment in this.

[NCPaul]

From the amount you give for the cure you bought from the shop, it appears that they want you to make up a brine and inject it into the meat. I have done this to good effect using Oddley's recipe. The other recipe is a brine cured recipe in which the meat cures in a brine solution. The Cure 1 has 6.25 % sodium nitrite. The Cure 1 from Sausage Making has 5.88 % sodium nitrite. I would inject the cure if possible.

[saucisson]

If you were dry curing you would add 2.5g per Kilo, and I have just used some on some beef in that way. For none dry cure uses you should check your recipe, and possibly with us

[wheels]

The 2.5gm per kg usage is for a dry cure and gives 147 mg/kg (around the 150 mg/kg EU max). As such it is correct, but brine curing is completely different.

Brine cures are notoriously difficult to calculate, particularly when using short curing periods. Personally I would not use this cure over the 5 day period you have been told to.

If I was forced to (you now appear to be in that position) I would actually use your recipe as is. But I would increase the cure #1 to 31gm.

Based on the best information we have to date (which isn't much) the meat will be 56% cured in this time and with 31gm cure in 4 litres water will give 150 mg/kg of nitrite in your meat.

You should 'mature' your meat for (say) a week at least to allow the cure, which in the short time it's had to penetrate the meat will be mainly in the outer parts, to equalise throughout the meat.

As to whether it works is another matter!

I hope this helps.

Phil

[djrpowell]

Hi,

thanks for the replies, I have to chill the brine overnight anyway so I can wait till tomorrow evening I think before dropping my beef in.

So I thought I just had to buy the Cure 1 and that was it. So it seems that I should have gone for http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/B ... r_Ham.html and the basic brine cure then added my spice!

I was trying to keep it simple!.

Phil, you seem to know what you are talking about. So If I increase to 31g my Nitrite from Cure 1 then I should be ok in terms of not killing myself?

Also when you talk about 56% cured then leave for a week is that washed off and out of brine?

Also how do you calculate the 56% done.

Finally I am flexible on time, I have the meat unfrozen and can freeze it and save it, or chuck brine. Also I can leave it for longer if you think that is best?

Any ideas, I can always alter my brine shame to waste the meat. I just wanted to mix my own brine from scratch. Also seems odd as this book I have has loads of cures and is modern...

http://books.wwnorton.com/books/Charcuterie/

Is it maybe that the Cure is more but time is less so Nitrite gradient is larger so penetrates faster?

Not sure really. How long is usual for brisket?

It would be nice to know as the whole reason I got the Cure 1 & 2 is for the recipies in this book, now I have doubts!

Thanks again

Daniel

[djrpowell]

Also I did look at Oddleys part injected brine & dry cure.

It seems from that would use about 3g nitrite & 0.3 nitrate to inject (need a pump

Then the dry cure 3g nitrite and nitrate 0.33g

Then cure for 10 days.

Could I do the same but just use the 31g of nitrite and then pull it out after 10 days. Having absorbed the right amount?

Any ideas.

[wheels]

Hi

I was working on the basis that you had already committed to the brine and that the meat was in it. If that isn't the case, I would use Oddley's combination cure as someone's suggested, but you'll have to follow his recipe as is, you can't replace the injection element with a brine cure. You can't 'mix and match' cures.

If you use the recipe you posted, it should be OK with 31gm nitrite then follow the recipe with 5 days curing (not a week as you say!). You don't need to work out the 56%, I've done it for you. I only put the details so that other who may advise later in the thread would know what I had done.

Phil

[djrpowell]

Cheers mate!

So to be clear, I cannot do Oddley's cure as I have no brine pump so I will try the other one. Then buy a pump!

I will add more Nitrite and then just 5 days as you said

Then dry off and cook, and that will be ok? or do I have to leave as you said for a few days to equalise out?

Should the cure have gone in, if I leave it longer what happens then?

I will dunk when I get home from work.

Thanks for the help?

Daniel

[wheels]

Hang on!

If you've not put your beef into anything then try this recipe:

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... light=beef

It's by a guy called Woodsmoke on another forum and if Oddley says it's good, then it will be.

Phil

[Oddley]

wheels, I said it was a good example of Irish spiced beef and so it is. It is in my opinion not a pure corned beef recipe, which should be salty, beefy and without much spice.

[wheels]

Many thanks for the 'Heads Up' Oddley.

I'm not sure where that leaves us now Daniel?

Phil

[Oddley]

There is a very simple answer to this question. A dry rub corned beef recipe. I have made one for you based on my pump and dry rub recipe.

Dry Rub Corned Beef
(by Oddley)

Of meat weight:
3 % Salt
1.5 % Sugar
0.2548 % Cure #1

Cooking ingredients:
boquet garni
1 carrot, chopped
1 onion, chopped
1 celery stick, chopped
1 leek, chopped
1 garlic bulb, cut in half across middle

Method:
Rub meat with cure, put into a zip loc bag in the bottom of the fridge for 10 days per 1Kg meat. When cured take out and wash in potable cold water.

Cooking Method:
Cover the meat with water and add the Cooking ingredients, bring to the boil. Simmer for 2½-3 hours.

[djrpowell]

It is all very frustating, I have my lovly brine all ready in a 10L brand new tub, what a waste!

I think i will go with you guys as you have the no how. But I really want to try a brined meat as it seems very easy to do.

I like the...

Irish Spiced Beef

Ingredients:
Silverside or Brisket

Of the meat weight:
10.1935 % Coarse salt
2.0573 % Soft brown sugar
0.5878 % Black peppercorns, crushed
0.2205 % Coriander seeds, crushed
0.0368 % Juniper berries, crushed
0.255 % Cure #1 (150ppm Nitrite)
0.0147 % Bayleaf
0.1469 % Ground mace
0.1102 % Ground ginger
0.1469 % Cloves, crushed

Method:
1: Place the beef in a ceramic, plastic container or food grade bag (not metal), & rub half the salt well into the beef.

2: Cover the container with cling film and refrigerate for 12 hours, turning once. This will get rid of some blood.

3: Remove the meat from the container or bag rinse and dry well.

4: Mix the rest of the ingredients together. Including the cure# 1.

5: Rub the mixture into the beef, ensuring you get it into all the nooks & crannies.

6: Rinse out the container, & put the meat back in.

7: Cover with cling film and refrigerate for 10 days, turning the beef every day.

8: After 10 days, remove from the fridge & rinse.

9: Simmer gently in a lrge amount of water for 3-3½ hours or until tender (in unsalted water!)

10: If serving hot, add stock veg' for the half hour or so of cooking.

11: If serving cold, place the beef into a tight fitting container, cover with a plate (or similar), & weight it down. I have a couple of clean house bricks well-wrapped in cling film & tinfoil that I use for weighing down pressed meat, but anything heavy will do (couple of books, Tupperware container full of water, boxes of cartridges, etc) Leave to cool, then stick it into the fridge overnight.

And also the one Oddley put but really that one seems to just be the same as if you are doing bacon?

Of meat weight:
3 % Salt
1.5 % Sugar
0.2548 % Cure #1

I keep wondering if it is worth just trying what I have this time then the other two!

I think that the dry cure last one most likely is best as my bacon is really good and cures really well.

I just want to brine somthing!

If I do the dry cure and toss the brine can anyone tell me somthing which I can brine (about 2kg) which will be cool!

I will leave it for tonight as sell by on Beef is the 7th so ok for one more day.

Also I take it I can just add some spice to my dry cure as with bacon and that will give some flavour.

Thanks

Daniel[/quote]

[wheels]

If you're set on using your brine, use your existing brine and go with what I said before.

Or try the Irish Spiced Beef, I know I quite like a spiced corned beef.

Or, use the dry cure that Oddley's posted - you can add any spices to it you fancy.

Or have a look around for another recipe on here that takes your fancy, there must be a few more corned/salted beef ones. There's a basic brine that you could add spices to here:

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... dard#62350

Regrettably, my own corned beef recipe is for injection curing.

Phil

[djrpowell]

Ok, I will give it a go...

but.. from Oddleys original....

Here's a brine (based on Oddleys original 2:1 cure). I guess it could be classed as pretty standard.

Water 841g
Salt 100g
Sugar 50g
Nitrite (Cure #1) 9g
Total 1000g


You must only use half the weight of brine compared to the weight of meat. 1.5kg meat would equal 750gm brine etc. You must then brine the meat for 10 days per kg. So for 1.5kg = 15 days.

This will give 150 PPM Nitrite based on 10 days per kg being 85% towards equilibrium (The findings of NCPaul's tests). The salt and sugar ratio is about the same as Oddley suggested in his original - so I'm taking it as read that they're correct - after all, 2:1 curing's 'his baby'.

This maps to a ratio of...

84% H20
10% Salt
5% Sugar
0.9% Nitrite

But used on 2.25kg total weight brine = 1125g but for 22.5 days

My original book receipe uses...

87% H20
9% Salt
2% sugar
0.55% Nitrite

However, the volume of brine is 1.77x that of the meat. Hence maybe on time calculations you are getting 22/4 = 5.5 days in the brine.

So if volume of brine is nearly x4 but at similar concentrations the gradient for absorbtion can be maintained at a higher rate as more ions can supply the meat as volume bigger?

Does that make sense?

Maybe ok as you said to drop it in and do for short time on my mix.

Has anyone tried to do like this for shorter?

What tends to happen?

Thing is I am pretty sure now thinking about it that the receipe conc is ok looking at this, I did not want to kill us. Just interesting about the shorter time and more brine?

Maybe this is a cheaper shortcut and it is better to do for longer, it is a US book and we know how the US like shortcuts. I just want simple but best flavour. Mainly I wanted to brine to get the flavour in.

I think I will just drop it in later on and take a chance, then report back (or keel over) but I think we must be ok.

Then try the other way as well.

Incidently why have the injection pump if you can dry cure without any issues?