Strange mold

[saucisson]

See this thread here: http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=630
Note 3 things:
1) whose thread it is,
2) the photo in the last post,
3) the geographical origin of the poster's family

[grisell]

Did he perform a mycotoxic analysis on those?

Until someone can present proof that unidientified mould on salami doesn't produce dangerous toxins, I will follow the recommendations from the authorities in my advice on this forum, i.e. to discard any "wet" food with wild mould if the mould appeared on an early stage and to cut off the mould with a one cm margin if it appeared when the product was dry.

[grisell]

See this thread here: http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=630
Note 3 things:
1) whose thread it is,
2) the photo in the last post,
3) the geographical origin of the poster's family

I really don't understand this. I really don't!

I seriously doubt that any sane person would eat fruit, vegetable, bread, meat, cheese or any food at all, that looks like Franco's salami in the picture above, even after washing it with vinegar.

What makes salami so special in this respect?

I would really appreciate an explanation instead of a bunch of subtle criticism for trying to help new members.

[mitchamus]

Grisell, you have unquestionable faith in 'the rules'

others - don't.

you can't convince others with reasoning based on those rules, when they don't agree with them to begin with.

[grisell]

Whether people accept rules or not is irrelevant here. My question was what makes salami an exception when it comes to unidentified mould and the toxins it produces.

It'd also be interesting to know why the forum has (or has had - I don't know) very strict rules about dosage of nitrite and nitrate (e.g. mixing one's own cure) but on the other hand encourages people to ignore mycotoxins. Dosage of nitrite/nitrate as well as toxicity of mycotoxins are based on recommendations and regulations from the authorities, to which the forum staff often refers in the case of cures.

[saucisson]

We believe we have a good understanding of what is and isn't safe with regard to simple chemicals, but we honestly hold our hands up when it comes to the complexities of molds and their interactions with each other and fermenting bacteria and admit we do not know everything...

if you want a factory perfect sausage, only use cultures and wipe anything off that isn't snowy white. If you want an artisan product then our knowledge is limited. We are not encouraging people to ignore mycotoxins.

[grisell]

Thank you, Saucisson. That sorted it out for the time being.

I have contacted The Swedish National Food Agency to see what they have to say on the matter. I will be back on a separate thread if and when I get an answer.

[DanMcG]

I have contacted The Swedish National Food Agency to see what they have to say on the matter. I will be back on a separate thread if and when I get an answer.

I'll be looking forward to what you have to post André.

[Kentkhi]

Thanks for all the research you are doing on this. I know in the future I will be inoculating with mold right up front. The weird thing is that this mold almost looked as if it formed over the white mold. It looked like a discoloring of the white mold.

I haven't thrown it out yet, I did wipe with a vinegar solution and inoculate with harvested white mold from a local pro. I am not wanting to give up, yet I do want to read further on the research before I eat this.

[wheels]

I am looking for a little feedback on this mold that popped up on my Salami...




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I'd give them a good rinse with vinegar or salt water - that's what the professional curers I talked to a couple of days ago do (Deli Farm Delabole).

Out of interest I also spoke to 3 other commercial UK producers, none of whom use a mould culture of any form. (Real Boar Co, Serious Pig and Trealy Farm).

I also find it amusing because nobody questions for a minute the mould allowed to grow on cheese. Neither of the cheeses in the photos below has a mould culture applied (The Stilton has one for the internal mould) but both are made in dairies that are subject to the closest of inspection by the food authorities in one of the most risk averse countries in the world:

http://www.stiltoncheese.com/making_stilton

http://www.leicestershirecheese.co.uk/about_us (RH Picture)

Looking at your photo, I too was concerned about the black speckles but if you say that they're pepper, then fair enough. Using mould culture on future batches is certainly a good idea.

HTH

Phil

[tristar]

An interesting paper here: http://bib.irb.hr/datoteka/365503.Moulds_and_ochratoxin_A_on_surfaces_of_artisanal_and_industrial_dry_sausages.pdf

This would seem to conclude that if toxins are found they are restricted to the mould itself. Washing of the casing or if necessary complete removal would appear to remove the toxins.

Regards,
Richard

[wheels]

Thank you Richard.

[ericrice]

Very interesting reading. Although it makes a strong case that little or no risk exists with exterior mold (in the sense of meat contamination) it also appears to make a strong case for washing or removing the casing prior to eating - that is something I have been debating on whether or not to do.

[Yannis]

Very interesting paper !!!

I will still try to avoid "bad" moulds but in case they apear I will wipe clean and not bin my sausages.

[wheels]

But isn't that part of it? Even if it's sprayed with 'good mould' it can still have the nasty toxins?

Phil