hanging sausages to cure - question

[mrphilips]

the major issue i'm having with mould comes in the way the sausages are hanging when paired... it seems that a questionable mould - grey-white, hairy mould - likes to form where they are held close together, or touching.

i'm talking about hog casing sausages, made in links, kept in pairs and hung from the joining twist of casing between the two

i know about external case mould, but i find i'm getting the questionable mould here, in the sausage-pair "armpits"

i used some small pieces of wood wrapped in tinfoil, wedged between the sausages to keep them further apart from each other. the sausage seems to stay really soft and moist whereever there is physical contact, worse when the contact is another sausage, better with the inorganic "spacers", but still present. same goes for this grey-white mould... it seems to like those moist-casing areas.

obviously, larger sausages, prosciutto, etc don't suffer this way as they are tied individually and don't need to end up touching...

i've checked the forum for past links to sites regarding tieing/hanging the sausages, but didn't find too much - can anyone advise?

[wheels]

I'm not sure that any of us would tie sausage for drying that were linked as you describe?

Phil

[grisell]

I agree with Phil. Try hanging them one by one or in the form of a U, like the two on the left in the picture below. But I don't understand how you can get strange mould. You do use a mould culture, do you?

[BriCan]

the major issue i'm having with mould comes in the way the sausages are hanging when paired... it seems that a questionable mould - grey-white, hairy mould - likes to form where they are held close together, or touching.

i'm talking about hog casing sausages, made in links, kept in pairs and hung from the joining twist of casing between the two

i know about external case mould, but i find i'm getting the questionable mould here, in the sausage-pair "armpits"

i've checked the forum for past links to sites regarding tieing/hanging the sausages, but didn't find too much - can anyone advise?

Check out how I do things -- no mould at all


http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... ght=#73574

HTH

[grisell]

[---]
Check out how I do things -- no mould at all


http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... ght=#73574

HTH

Yes, and we still wonder how you do it.

[BriCan]

[---]
Check out how I do things -- no mould at all


http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... ght=#73574

HTH

Yes, and we still wonder how you do it.

I should correct that and say; -- I only see 99.9999999999% of the time good moulds did you look at the cuppa closely?

[larry]

Whenever I do pairs now, I put string on the individual ends as well as the shared end, and I start them by hanging the individual ends tied to the rack or bar, so the pair forms a V, with no shared contact. After they have dried out, it seems that a little contact doesn't result in mold, so I invert them and hang them from the common end. This is for small diameter stuff. The last sopressata I did in pairs I couldn't use this technique because they were too fat, so I just hung them from one end and let the other end hang below it.

[mrphilips]

Phil & Andre - that's the groucho marx answer "it hurts when i go like this/then don't go like that" answer that i didn't really think of, but it'll work... i'm just used to getting dried sausages in links from the local suppliers, so i assumed there was an easy way to achieve it (enter Brian), but i'm not partial to the idea and could def hang them individually as you do.

as for an exterior culture... i'm fighting several fires at once, and decided to narrow down my list of variables:
a) new chamber
b) new temperature controller
c) new humidity options
d) case mould from a good looking sausage from the store
...my last batch got covered in multi-coloured mould about 10 days in. the temperature was swinging wildly, was on average too high, as was the humidity, and it was my first time using the harvested case mould.
i decided to fight the fires one by one, trying small batches of saussicon sec all the while, trying to perfect the process.
i now have a good temperature controller and a better way to handle humidity... trying to figure out which temp/hum goals to set for my chamber (where the laws of physics are unique) requires some trial and error - you see some people using very high humidyt (80%+) and some very low (55%), neither would work for me.
so when i'm more happy with the balance, i intend to re-test the case mould i harvested...
i realize that a case mould would help fight the meanies, but it could also infect the sausages if it was a crappy culture, you see?

i guess i could find one to buy online (not sure how they deliver that stuff - doesn't it have to remain frozen?), but i'd really rather not rely on store-bought cultures. i may have to give in eventually however.

[mrphilips]

Brian - yeah.
see... things are just different over here in my wine-chiller.
the one that could fit under my desk.
i don't have a walk-in smoke house, i can't acquire any cross-ventilation without suffering major case hardening, humidity is a b!tch to control and my sausages are WAY uglier than yours (but i can work on that).

production to production, you and i are from different countries, however envious i am of your facilities.

cardboard could work, and the four-link method would create a good pinch to keep the cardboard wedged between. when the humidity is high, do they not soften and fold?
can you re-use them?
do you not worry about them bringing in unsterile meanies?
my chamber is small and with no airflow - things have to be very clean.

dude, i'm the down-town toronto rented-apartment no-basement version of what you got going on... one day i'll get the proper facilities, meanwhile i'm closet curing.

[mrphilips]

larry - that's a good thought too.
i have done an "M"-shape... four links together, hanging by hooks between 1&2 and 3&4, which is sorta what you've done with your V. that worked but my ugly micky-rourke sausages rarely come out uniform enough to get four good ones linked, hahahah.

[wheels]

You'll note that Brican's are not touching, the hanging bars are keeping them apart.

Phil

[BriCan]

Brian - yeah.
see... things are just different over here in my wine-chiller.
the one that could fit under my desk.

Sorry, (about the assumption – young Wheels is reminding me most of the time) – I’m slightly bigger than your bedroom (unless you are in a bachelor suite)

i don't have a walk-in smoke house,

Sorry to say that I do not have one now. Being on my own (in a sense) I do rely on the place I used to work (hence the photos) for my smoking. Have to wait (very long time??) for my partner to get off his f*t a**e

i can't acquire any cross-ventilation without suffering major case hardening,

There is a hole in the wall that lets air in for the furnace – we are slightly luckier than you as out in this country our winters tend to be mild

humidity is a b!tch to control

I do honestly know what you mean when you say bitch ---- so in all honesty I do not try at all to control the humidity – never will --- not worth the agro

and my sausages are WAY uglier than yours

You must remember that we all started somewhere and besides that I had to seriously work on it as customers would not buy them, the other problem was even my mother would/will not take them cuz they wuz that ugly

(but i can work on that).

It’s just like trying to riding a bike

production to production, you and i are from different countries, however envious i am of your facilities.

And hears me thinking it was different provinces but I hear what you are saying.

Believe me when I say this; do not be envious of the slightly larger space that I have if need be I could/can do it in the house with the shower facility in the basement (closet size), my work shop (12 x 16 ((?)) ) which is unheated plus a refrigerator

cardboard could work, and the four-link method would create a good pinch to keep the cardboard wedged between.

Cardboard will work. Think outside the box as you are right now you are not looking at the solution but at another problem that the mind is creating. If you are doing a two link then cut your strips thinner so that the meat is not touching at any spot

when the humidity is high, do they not soften and fold?

No. this will only happen if you spray the product down or give them a bath

can you re-use them?

If your sausage are not being smoked (cardboard strips would accompany to smokehouse re; new ones) then do a one time use – this from a health issue or you could make Plexiglas (acrylic) strips

do you not worry about them bringing in unsterile meanies?

As said fresh/new ones are a one (1) time use as they go with the product into smokehouse and then they are in a sense sealed

my chamber is small and with no airflow - things have to be very clean.

Small is no problem as for air flow you can try André method of keeping the door open a crack (?) As for clean – there is a point that one can go overboard, please do not get me wrong – yes I keep things clean but very clean (?) if that was to happen then I would not get the good moulds forming

dude, i'm the down-town toronto rented-apartment no-basement version of what you got going on... one day i'll get the proper facilities, meanwhile i'm closet curing.

You are probably in the same type of digs as my son who is a short (?) distant away from Ryerson University

Hope the above is some help

[mrphilips]

wow... i feel like we're dating

ok, thanks for the info... i know most of my old-world cronies don't worry about humidity or anything for that matter... no case-mould, no (intentional) fermentation, no curing salt... awesome results.

honestly i think trying to live up to the expected standards (temps, humidities, curing times) is the biggest burden - that being said, the wife doesn't like anything i've produced as much as the old worlder's products, and i've been able to identify some of the differences - namely case-hardening - so am trying to hit the book-written expectations in order to avoid the easily-attained less-desirable product... and then ease into my own method from there once i'm making better stuff.

i think i'll be a home pro in a year... lots to fiddle with meanwhile.