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Overheated cheese

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:48 pm
by saucisson
For various reasons I left my milk on the heating mat for 24hrs before cutting the curds, a very clean break!! problem is, because there were no convection currents the temperature at the bottom of the curds was extremely high. It will be very interesting to see how this one turns out.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:41 pm
by BBQer
What kind of temperature range did your curd experience?

I'm going to try a "Farmer" cheese recipe this weekend, along with the Brie already planned, that requires heating the milk to 190-200F. If it went that high maybe you'll end up with this kind.

Beginner's Goat Cheese
from Capri Herb Farm

1 Gallon Milk (Preferably unpastuerized Goat milk, but other milk will work)
1/2 cup white vinegar or substitute 1/2 cup lime juice or 1/2 cup Lemon juice
Salt to taste (minimum is about 1 1/2 tablespoons, or 2 1/2 tablespoons for ricotta or cottage cheese)

Put milk into large stainless steel cook pot and slowly heat until milk is between 190 and 200 degrees. (In cheese making temperature is up there next to God, so the temperature has to be right!)

Slowly add the vinegar, lemon, or lime juice while stirring until all is added and mixed thoroughly into the milk, but only until it is added. Do not over-stir! It will curdle as it is supposed to do.

Let cool undisturbed until it is around 100 degrees (not too hot to handle with your hands) Add salt to taste, and SLOWLY either cut the curd or stir very gently to break up the curd into pieces. If you are wanting ricotta, you break it up into VERY small pieces. If you want a "cream cheese", you don't break it up into pieces smaller than quarter sized pieces.

Drain the cheese into a cheese cloth lined colander. (you can buy cheese cloth at most grocery stores in the laundry/cleanser sections). If you use fine cheesecloth, double or triple it in thickness. Take the 4 corners of the cheesecloth and bring them together and tie them together.

Hang the "dripping" cheese until it is the consistency you want. If you want ricotta or cottage cheese, only hang it for an hour and use less salt since salt pulls the whey from the curd. If you want a cream cheese, let it hang for 4 hours. If you want a white harder cheese, let it hang for 12 hours (and use a little more salt to get more whey out of the cheese). No aluminum utensils and rubber sometimes has a "smell" to it that will transfer to the cheese, so stainless steel is best!

Untie the cheese, mold it and chill until cold, molding it in whatever size container you want to use.

A great party cheese is to take a cookie press (battery kind) and make little tiny cheeses with the press and put them on waxed paper in an air tight container. If you want a very smooth cheese, like cream cheese, then put the cheese in a mixer after it is untied and mix until smooth consistency. If you are going for a hard cheese, then the cheese in the bag will be hard, with small air pockets.
Now, if you have made the "cream" type cheese, you can make a Torte by taking the cheese while it is still in the mixer and add 1/4 volume (approximately) pure butter. Then take a mold (a plastic container that is appropriate size) Put one layer cheese/torte mix sprinkle Black Olives, sun dried tomatoes, basil pesto sauce (my favorite!) or diced dates, then layer again to the top, alternating with your gastronomical preferences. On top decorate with pimento slices, bay leaves, or whatever your desire. Put in refrigerator until cold, and unmold.

Mold the cheese while still warm, and then chill. Also, breaking up the curd as well as the salt as well as the hanging time determines the consistency of the cheese, and yes you can peek at it while it is hanging and draining!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:15 pm
by saucisson
Thanks BBQer, looks like I may be OK, but have made an interesting cheese. The curds at the top were room temperature and those at the bottom hot too handle but not uncomfortably so. Unfortunately I didn't think to measure the temperature. If it works out and I try and recreate the accident I will check.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:31 am
by BlueCheese
saucisson, were the curds rubbery?
"190-200F" wow, hope it does not burn.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:46 am
by saucisson
No, not rubbery. I'd guess they were 50 degree Celsius = 122 degree Fahrenheit. I'd put some soft goats cheese in as a starter and I reckon that got a good start as the curds in the middle had lots of bubbles in. We'll see what happens.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:17 am
by BBQer
I'm trying to reproduce a "farmer's cheese" my wife described to me. This was the closest recipe to what she descibed, so I guess we'll see.

I'm going to have to stay right on top of the heating process to make sure it doesn't burn.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:20 am
by BlueCheese
All the recipes I have looked at, non have been that high a temp, at that temp, all the enzymes are dead. I sugest u do some checking.
Here are some farm cheese recipes; ... Cheese.htm

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:18 pm
by BBQer
The one element my wife described was that it was made with vinegar as the curdling agent and not much else. Didn't have much to go on here. Most of the recipes I found along those lines were all very similar with the temp. taken to, or almost to, boiling. Below are some examples.

Well it's an experiment, so I'll give it a shot and see what happens. The worst that could happen is it scorches a bit (The first recipe doesn't even seem too concerned about that), or I end up with a cheese that's not what my wife remembers eating.

You can use either goat or cow milk for this cheese. You can use as much milk as you'd like. You can use 1 gallon, or two gallons, or three gallons. It just depends on how much milk you have, and how big your pot is. Don't use an aluminum pot.

Over direct heat, warm the milk to 183�- 185� (not any higher), and maintain that temperature for 10 minutes. Stir it often to keep it from scorching. If it does scorch, use a stainless steel scrubby to clean your pot later.

With the milk still on the heat, while stirring, add about 1/4 Cup of white vinegar per gallon of milk. I find the taste is better with white vinegar than cider vinegar. To be honest, I don't even measure the vinegar, I just pour in a glug, stir, look, pour in a glug, stir, etc. until the curd separates. The separation should happen right away. When the curd separates cleanly from the whey (it will look like very fine, white particles floating in the greenish whey), pour it into a cheesecloth lined colander. I put the colander over another pot, to save the whey for later use. Use real cheesemaking cheesecloth here, not the stuff you can buy at the grocery store.

Tie the corners of the cloth together and hang the bag to drain for a few hours. Refrigerate your cheese after it has drained. It will keep for a couple of weeks.

Now that you have this rubbery ball of cheese, what do you do with it? Panir is like tofu: it will take on the flavor of the food it is cooked with. Just cut it into bite-sized cubes and throw it into chili or spaghetti. You can cook the noodles in the leftover whey. You will need to cook them a little longer than usual; test to make sure they're done to your liking. I love pasta cooked in whey. I always save whey just for this purpose. Try serving your chili over vermicelli cooked in whey, topped with a sprinkle of cheese, some sprouts and a dollop of yogurt (goat of course).

You could use Panir as a meat extender/replacement. Since we are vegetarian, we use a lot of Panir. When you make taco meat, I cut it up in tiny cubes and simmer it with the meat for about an hour. I make "chick'n a la king" using cubes of Panir instead of meat. A quick dinner is mac'n cheese, made from a box, but also add onions, Panir cubes, peas and use buttermilk in place of regular milk.

You can marinade the Panir and throw it on top of salads or use it in stir-fry. Panir is really in its element when used in curry. Serve the curry over rice cooked with whey instead of water and add a handful of raisins and a clove to the rice as well, to make it really authentic.

Farmers Cheese
1/2 gallon (8 cups) skim milk
1 c dried skim milk powder (Carnation instant)
1/4 c lemon juice or white vinegar (I used the latter)
optional seasonings to taste

Cheese cloth

Heat up skim milk, and mix in the skim milk powder. As mixture begins to simmer or boil, begin to add a little of the vinegar or lemon juice. Stir.

Keep the flame on, and keep adding and stirring until the milk solids *completely* separate from the whey (yellow watery part). The amount of heat and acidity have to be in balance for this to work. Drain in cheesecloth. Use as you would cooked burger meat -- for instance, flavor it and stuff green peppers with it. Oh, you might want to flavor it while still in the milk state -- with salt, pepper and herbs.

Quesco Blanco (queso fresco) is a South American cheese that is similar to the Indian cheese, Panir. It makes a great cooking cheese because it does not melt.

gallon Straus Milk (any variety)
1/3 cup vinegar (cider, grain or herb vinegar)

Warm the milk to 195 degrees F. You should have a cooking thermometer. Stir the milk to keep it from scorching. When the milk is at 195 degrees F., stir in the vinegar. Turn the heat off and let the hot milk set for 10 minutes. The milk will quickly coagulate into solid white curd particles and a clear greenish liquid whey.

Line a colander with fine cheesecloth and pour the curds and whey into the colander. Hang the bag of curd to drain for one hour or until the curd has stopped dripping whey. Remove the cheese from the cloth. It will be a solid mass of curd and may be wrapped in plastic wrap and stored in the refrigerator until ready for us.

Queso Blanco can be cut into half-inch cubes and used in a variety of dishes. Because it doesn't melt, it works wonderfully in all types of recipes. Supposedly, it is the only cheese which can be deep-fried without melting. You can add it to soups, stir-fried vegetables or pastas. The cheese will take on the flavor of the surrounding food and spices. By itself, the cheese has a very milk and distinctly sweet taste.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:03 pm
by saucisson
Thanks BBQer. I'll try the panir, that sounds interesting.


My cheese seems OK but only time will tell.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:04 pm
by Richierich
The paneer i have made in the past was to use with Curries, as a side dish with spinach and peas (I would post the recipe if I could recall where it was).

The method I use is to take 4 pints of milk and bring it to the boil, give it a really good stir and pour in 2 tbsp of lemon juice, drain through a cloth and sit under a heavy weight over night, the more weight the more solid the paneer.