Dry cure bacon help

Air dried cured meat and salami recipes

Postby saucisson » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:08 pm

This is from Oddley, after I got my sums wrong on another thread :oops:

Meat 1 kg
Prague #1 3.2 Grams (200 ppm)
Salt Weight 20 grams (2%)
Sugar Weight 10 grams (1%)
Sodium Ascorbate 0.55 grams (550 ppm)


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Postby shanew » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:29 pm

Just give Franco �50 so hopefully i'll have my stuff soon. I'll tell our lass i intend "makin bacon" see how she reacts :)
Save the enviroment, we cant afford to loose more animals, what will we use for variety in sausges, i for one would have liked a dodo banger!
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Postby Oddley » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:38 pm

dougal wrote:I've been shown that label before!
Walls bacon is mostly (entirely?) vacuum packed and aimed at a maximum shelf life. I wonder if their use of nitrate is to give long term protection in anaerobic conditions? And similarly Ascorbate (and its cousins) have well established uses as anti-oxidant preservatives.


Nitrite is itself a powerful antioxidant and with a continuous supply of nitrite from the nitrate, don't you think then, that the ascorbate is unnecessary, apart from a nitrite reducer.

There are a number of commercial bacon cure available with nitrite and nitrate supracure for one. Franco's bacon cures contains ascorbate.


dougal wrote:I also have it from Parson Snows that the acid form (of both optical isomers) is specifically banned from use in bacon curing in the USA, just like saltpetre!


The use of saltpetre is not banned in the UK, nor is, as far as I know, ascorbic acid. The important thing is not just to take others words for things, but to question them ourselves. Have you got a direct link to the info Parson snows posted so we can see ourselves? Do you know why the USA banned the use of ascorbic acid as a reducer of nitrite, if indeed it did? After all PS has no formal qualifications in this field that I know of, so why should we take his word.

I would be most interested if you can answer any of the questions.


dougal wrote:No 1 is 6.25% Nitrite. The rest salt.


shanew

Franco's cure #1 contains 5.8824% nitrite not 6.25% nitrite


    Dry cure for bacon

    1 kg meat not fat
    2.55 g cure #1 (150 ppm)
    0.3 g saltpetre (300 ppm)
    0.55 g sodium ascorbate
    18 g sea salt
    10 gm sugar

British rules from the FSA allow 150 ppm Nitrite 300 ppm saltpetre.
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Postby shanew » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:51 pm

Im confused now, do i need saltpetre for dry curing bacon? or is this now a debate?
Save the enviroment, we cant afford to loose more animals, what will we use for variety in sausges, i for one would have liked a dodo banger!
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Postby Oddley » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:18 pm

Saltpetre gives a deeper flavour. my recipe is perfectly ok to use, or use my recipe posted by saucisson. Your choice.
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Postby shanew » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:39 pm

i'll stick some in then, sausage-maker sells on ebay, he sells it at 99p for 50g on ebay
Save the enviroment, we cant afford to loose more animals, what will we use for variety in sausges, i for one would have liked a dodo banger!
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Postby saucisson » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:04 pm

shanew wrote:Im confused now, do i need saltpetre for dry curing bacon? or is this now a debate?


Mod hat on:

It's an interesting topic, can we start a new thread to debate this issue separately?.

hat off:

Shane, if you want to make safe bacon you do need a source of nitrite so you need either cure 1 or saltpetre to provide this and if you wish to follow a recipe that has both then that is fine too. Ascorbate in small quantities may reduce your risk of nitrosamine induced cancer so that is fine too.

Hope this makes sense and hasn't upset anyone

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Last edited by saucisson on Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jenny_haddow » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:13 pm

Whatever method he chooses, I hope shanew enjoys his home produced bacon as much as me and my family do. You cant beat it.
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Postby shanew » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:59 am

i hope i will too, theres nothing better than making things with your own hands.
Save the enviroment, we cant afford to loose more animals, what will we use for variety in sausges, i for one would have liked a dodo banger!
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Postby Oddley » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:45 am

saucisson wrote:Mod hat on:

It's an interesting topic, can we start a new thread to debate this issue separately?


Moving to a new thread sort of breaks up the flow of the debate, Dave. All the best debates have been on threads that started as something else, and grew organically. I do have new info on ascorbic acid, but it would be churlish to post it without a reply first from dougal. After all this was a debate not an argument.
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Postby saucisson » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:41 pm

Ok by me so long as shane has the information he needs to get started which I think he has now, so debate away :)

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Postby shanew » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:51 pm

Im happy for anyone to post, im not like some who get uptight when others post in a thread i started.
p.s had a call today, my orders going to be around a week for delivery so i'll be asking more questions when i get my stuff.
Save the enviroment, we cant afford to loose more animals, what will we use for variety in sausges, i for one would have liked a dodo banger!
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Postby BBQer » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:51 pm

The more debate, the more knowledge exchanged, the more I learn. So keep the debate going.

That's what I say, but then what do I know. Or some that know me might say, what a wino. :wink:
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Postby saucisson » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:28 pm

Let the flow of information commence :)

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Postby Oddley » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:10 pm

I'm sorry, but it takes two to debate a subject, if dougal hasn't posted by tomorrow, I will post the info I have on ascorbic acid here.
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