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Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:45 pm**

Many old recipe books list saltpetre as an ingredient but I prefer to use a modern equivalent ie Prague 1 or 2, does anyone know the equivalent amounts to use.eg 1 teaspoon saltpetre = ??Prague 1 or 2.

In some recipe books most notably Jane Grigson's chacuterie she lists saltpetre in all her cured meat recipes whether they are for short term cures or long term cures that would nowadays use Prague 2.

Can anyone help?

Franco

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:31 pm**

Franco
you wrote

Many old recipe books list saltpetre as an ingredient but I prefer to use a modern equivalent ie Prague 1 or 2, does anyone know the equivalent amounts to use.eg 1 teaspoon saltpetre = ??Prague 1 or 2.

There is NO one conversion .You would really have to look at it on a case by case basis, ie corned beef, bacon (dry cured/wet cure), sausages etc.

you wrote

In some recipe books most notably Jane Grigson's chacuterie she lists saltpetre in all her cured meat recipes whether they are for short term cures or long term cures that would nowadays use Prague 2.

Jane Grigson is (was) one of my heroes, though I would recommend being very careful with her cures etc. as she was always very fond of stating "and a good pinch of saltpetre" . These days we are a lot more aware of the risks and dangers of nitrates.

hope that this is of some use to you

kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:52 pm**

As Nitrates are a dangerous subject if you were using my information for commercial purposes I wouldn't answer and suggest you seek professional advice.

If it is for personal use then look at this pdf especially This.

ï¿½ 8 Ibs. salt
ï¿½ 3 Ibs. sugar
ï¿½ 2 oz. sodium nitrate
ï¿½ 1/2 oz. sodium nitrite (or a total of 3 oz. nitrate available;
remember, excess nitrite is toxic)

I would personally use 1/6th less total (nitrates + nitrites) in modern cures as in total potassium nitrate.

This for Cure #2 only.

EDIT: On consideration I would also do some calculations to see if the recipe made sense in the first place.

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:54 pm**

Thanks for the Parson, I thought as much :lol:

I use Jane Grigsons book often and find it excellent for more obscure dishes.

I asked my suppliers for some background on nitrates and MSG here is their reply

Dear Franco,

To confirm our conversation:

Sodium Nitrate (Chile Saltpetre) is more concentrated than potassium nitrate (Saltpetre). You need to use sodium nitrate at 53.2% of the level of potassium nitrate in your formulation. For example if you used 100g of potassium nitrate, you need to replace that with 53.2g of sodium nitrate. Add the extra 46.8g to the quantity of salt that you are using.

The legal names for these ingredients are Sodium Nitrate E251 and Potassium Nitrate E252, and should be used within the ingredient declaration. The terms Chile Saltpetre and Saltpetre are what are called fancy names which whilst they can be used for the name of a food, must be clarified to make it clear to the consumer what they are buying. Your local trading standards office should be able to advise you if you have particular queries on naming of foodstuffs.

I would recommend using MSG at an end product level of 0.1-0.2% (ie 1-2g MSG per 1kg of sausage).Using much more than this amount can make the product unpleasant and is not cost effective. I suggest you start at 1g per kg and see how you get on as the amount required will vary slightly from product to product.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

This seems to give us the answer for Cure 1 but not cure 2
Franco

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:36 pm**

Franco thats quite surprising as you see in the pdf I pointed to from Oklahoma Cooperative Extension service but I won't argue as I have said I'm still trying to research the subject.

There is one point, you said.

Franco wrote:This seems to give us the answer for Cure 1 but not cure 2

This is totally wrong.

Your Supplier wrote:Sodium Nitrate (Chile Saltpetre) is more concentrated than potassium nitrate (Saltpetre). You need to use sodium nitrate at 53.2% of the level of potassium nitrate in your formulation. For example if you used 100g of potassium nitrate, you need to replace that with 53.2g of sodium nitrate. Add the extra 46.8g to the quantity of salt that you are using.

Cure # 1 only has Sodium Nitrite No sodium Nitrate in it.

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:54 pm**

Sorry Oddley, that was a typo :oops:

The company I use are probably Britain's biggest food additive manufacturer, if you have any specific queries PM me and I'll ask the product development manager to answer them, she's a scientist so should be able answer anything nitrtate related

Franco

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:08 pm**

Oddley,
the cures I use are mixed commercially, I was asking for the equivalent use of saltpetre out of personal interest as I use recipes from old books that only list saltpetre and no 'modern' cures.

Regards

Franco

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:58 pm**

It was interesting reading what your supplier said I'm sue with one more question to them we could find out how to convert them old recipes to modern cures. it's just a matter of asking the right question If I can think of it I'll let you know if you find out yourself please let me know.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:44 am**

Franco

You wrote

Many old recipe books list saltpetre as an ingredient but I prefer to use a modern equivalent ie Prague 1 or 2, does anyone know the equivalent amounts to use.eg 1 teaspoon saltpetre = ??Prague 1 or 2.

Deb asked

How much of the cure#1 would I use to replace the saltpetre in this recipe?

See ï¿½Dry Bacon Cure Recipe Questionï¿½ posting
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... 76&start=0

where a portion of this exact topic was discussed

See ï¿½Bigwheelï¿½s Genuine Texas Hotlonks Recipeï¿½ posting
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... highlight=

where the conversion from Mortonï¿½s Tender Quick (not available in the UK) to Cure #1 was discussed

Aris wrote

Parson,
I'm just curious to know how you came to the calculation of 7g of cure #1 in place of the TQ. I may like to do a conversion like this in the future myself.

The calculation was emailed to Aris. Should you like a copy for your personal use or to post on the forum Iï¿½d be happy to send you one.

As I mentioned before each one would have to be addressed on an individual basis, and due to the location/nationalities of the forum members should probably cover both UK/EU standards and US standards.

I hope that information is of some use to you

Kind regards

Parson Snows

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:06 am**

To All

Is Saltpetre a manufactured product ? or is it a natural source like salt?

Any history on saltpetre would be welcome.

Regards

Fatman

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:14 am**

Fatman Click Here

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:26 am**

Fatman,

I'm only quoting from a book here but saltpetre literally means 'salt of rock'. It occurs naturally as a crust or efflorescence on rocks and old brick walls (there's plenty in my cellar). I don't know if you can manufacture it though - the chemical composititon thingy is KN03

Cheers

Posted: **Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:34 pm**

Thank-you chaps

What interesting information that turned out to be, my 14 year old daughter who suffers from a mild form of Asthma might now be encouraged to eat more bacon.

Regards

Fatman

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