crusty bottom

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crusty bottom

Postby aceddu » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:23 pm

I've been making bread using King Aurthur Bread Flour...I bake it on a stone pre-heated to 450* F...the dough is brushed with either egg wash or corn starch wash,to give it a crust.Then I sprinkle sesame seeds on top...I bake
the bread on parchment paper that I slide onto the stone,which is on the 2nd rack in the oven.I pour 1/2 cup of water into a pan that is on the first rack,to create steam.Seems I always get a crusty top,but I can never get a crusty bottom...any suggestions?
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Postby david1233 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:56 pm

You could turn the bread over for the last ten minutes, and at the end of baking time turn of the oven and leave the door ajar for ten minutes before removing the loaf.
Are you letting it cool on a rack?
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Postby wheels » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:16 pm

Stone not preheated enough?

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Postby david1233 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:12 pm

Yes,you are right it has to be hot. I leave my stone in the oven at full belt for at least 30 minutes
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Postby aceddu » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:19 pm

Yes,I do cool on a rack,and the bottom of the bread becomes soft right away....I thought the stone was hot enough,but maybe it isn't.I am also guessing that the water pan under the stone maybe keeping the stone from getting hot enough,so I'm thinking of moving them to opposing sides of the oven,or using a smaller water pan.I'm going to try to change it up this weekend,maybe I can get some different results.Thanks :)
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Postby wheels » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:38 pm

aceddu

You could put the empty metal pan in to heat at the same time as the stone - when the bread goes in, throw about 1/2 a cup of water on the pan - so it creates steam virtually instantly?

What recipe are you using, put it online and I'll try it and see whether I get the same result.

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Postby RodinBangkok » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:56 pm

All around crust will depend on your stones ability to absorb the moisture, they work by drawing the moisture from the dough into the stone, but that capacity is limited by the volume of dough you've placed on it, as the stone absorbs this moisture it will reach a saturation point and then start producing steam back into the bottom of the loaf. If you want crisp all the way around try thinner loaves, bigger or thicker stone or use a perforated thin pan that allows this moisture to escape, it needs to be absorbed or evacuated from the bottom to become crisp. If your placing water in the oven make sure its already boiling and placed into a pre heated pan in the oven. Placing cold water in will only reduce the temp of the oven. The boiling water will still produce steam as the oven is well above the boiling point of water. This will also better simulate a commercial steam injector.
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Re: crusty bottom

Postby fremented » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:18 pm

My experence, is the bottom is not hot enough. It is very, very hard to get a stone in a convential oven to get hot. Pre-heat, pre-heat...

I learned this after buying a electric deck oven, at first I had to learn how not to burn the bottom. :) There are many good advice from bakers on here, cooking it on a screen might help. If you can get the stone very hot, it should work. I never tired it, but heat 500 degrees for one hour, turn oven to your target temp, put on stone.

aceddu wrote:I've been making bread using King Aurthur Bread Flour...I bake it on a stone pre-heated to 450* F...the dough is brushed with either egg wash or corn starch wash,to give it a crust.Then I sprinkle sesame seeds on top...I bake
the bread on parchment paper that I slide onto the stone,which is on the 2nd rack in the oven.I pour 1/2 cup of water into a pan that is on the first rack,to create steam.Seems I always get a crusty top,but I can never get a crusty bottom...any suggestions?
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crusty bottom

Postby the chorizo kid » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:47 pm

use the same method and always have a crusty bottom. however, i spread some cornmeal on the HOT baking stone and i do NOT use parchment paper. why do you use parchment paper under the bread while it is baking?
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Re: crusty bottom

Postby fremented » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:28 pm

How hot, the corn meal does not burn?

I use parchment when I do not want the doe to stick, for example when cooking on wire flat screens or baguette style screens. It is very hard to work with doe when its 70-75% hydration, and it will never come off a screen if it seeps through, mess. I usually cook the baguette or bread to set, then pull off the parchment, then finish cooking.

Often I cheat when making a pizza, especially if working with high hydration forumaltion. I will put some parchment paper on the peal, toss in oven, when it's set, it is about time to turn the pizza. Pull off and turn.

One thing I have learn many types of parchment burn at around 500 degrees F, little better ones you get 50 more degrees or a little more time before burning. The paper cannot stand to much around 500-550, burns fast. My stone might have been 600, need to get a infered thermoter.

the chorizo kid wrote:use the same method and always have a crusty bottom. however, i spread some cornmeal on the HOT baking stone and i do NOT use parchment paper. why do you use parchment paper under the bread while it is baking?
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Postby wheels » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:33 pm

Maybe use a couche instead of a screen, roll onto peel?

I find that 'high hydration' doughs are more manageable when made using a long fermentation method with a starter (biga or poolish), although I am quite happy making 70% as a 'quick dough' for burger rolls etc.

Hope this helps
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Last edited by wheels on Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby fremented » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:56 pm

I am still learning how to make baguettes, not sure what I am after, figure that out when I get there.

Every time I try to move re-risen doe, it collapses. I tried rising them in screen and roll them out, no luck, lose some air pockets, you can see in the crumb where part collapse. I have better luck rising, cooking until set in the forms, then removing and finish cooking.

High water, whether yeast, or cultures that take 8-12 hrs to rise both are challenging with high water.

I been decreasing my water amount by weight slowly in my baguettes. This is my latest experiment, but it is hard, when using a approximately 48/52% culture. There is a variable that varies a bit :) But I have a baseline and slowly decreasing water and working with the doe to see if the handling properties change much compared to crumb. I have to have those large air pockets.

wheels wrote:Maybe use a couche instead of a screen, roll onto peel?

I find that 'high hyradtion' doughs are more manageable when made using a long fermentation method with a starter (biga or poolish), although I am quite happy making 70% as a 'quick dough' for burger rolls etc.

Hope this helps
Phil
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Postby wheels » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:54 pm

Fremented

You may want to try these:

http://www.applepiepatispate.com/bread/ ... -baguette/

http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=162

Breadcetera is a very good place to learn about the type of bread you aspire to. It's not the easiest though!

Phil
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Postby the chorizo kid » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:21 pm

fermented
my baking stone is a plain cheap pizza stone from w'mart; i think the oven is set either to 450 or 475, i can't remember here in the office; NO, THE CORNMEAL DOES NOT BURN AT ALL; when you think of it, a good pizza has a good bottom crust; and they all use cornmeal under the pizza, at least the ones i have seen. i still don't understand the use of parchment paper in your method. not saying it is wrong; just that i do not understand the purpose.
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Postby wheels » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:24 pm

I'm just thinking that the parchment may be the problem - isn't the idea of the stone to draw moisture from the dough? The parchment would surely inhibit this.

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