Panasonic didn't rise this morning

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Panasonic didn't rise this morning

Postby dbairduk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:29 am

Hello,
Just got a panasonic 254. I have made two loafs of bread on light and medium crust.
I thought I would set the timer and make some fresh for breakfast. I added all the ingredients as per the book and previous two.
The loaf was had not realy risen and was half the size of the previous two.
It was quite a disapointment as the bread smell was in the air and I was very hungry as usual!

Is there a knack to adding the ingredience when using the timer? I presume that somthing must have mixed before the machine got chance to mix it.

Cheers!

Dave
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Dave
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Postby Mike D » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:45 am

Hi Dave,

I have a Panasonic bread machine and I found it a bit hit and miss. I really couldn't predict if a proper loaf was going to appear at the end of a cycle. I tried placing the ingredients in, in differing orders, using different amounts etc and still never resolved it, and I kept turning out a succession of bricks (which came in handy for rusk for sausages).

I now use it for mixing and proving the bread dough only (I use the pizza setting), and do the remainder of the knocking back, rising and baking in the top and bottom ovens on the Rayburn. Obviously, this takes longer but I now know how long it takes and my bread is now exactly how I want it.

Sorry I can't be of any specific help, but there is another thread on problems with Panasonic machines here...

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=5063

I don't think it is just Panasonic machines, as I had a Breville one prior to the Panny, and I was just as good at turning out bricks with that one. The problem is that the machine just works to a timer and does not 'see' how the loaf has risen (or not) as you would using the human touch. The Panny does make a great dough mixer though.
Cheers,


Mike
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Postby hugecans » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:40 am

Dave
We use the same Panasonic, almost always on timer overnight; my uninformed guess would be that the water somehow might have reached the yeast before time. I use this machine just about every other day, and the only failures have been the smaller loaves; I surmise that maybe the water manages to seep down through the thinner layer of flour to reach the yeast before the mixing begins, so I only go for the L setting on timer, and make sure I a) level off the flour, b) pour in the water carefully, aiming for a lump of butter (!), and c) additionally I've found I get a better rise using filtered water (our water's fairly bleachy out of the tap).

Of course, if your loaf was an L-size anyway, my theory kind of goes up in smoke! Slightly elderly yeast? Errm. Dunno. FYI I use Allinson's Very Strong bread flours, both wholemeal and white.

The breadmaker is a mixed blessing; it's fantastic at doing what it says on the tin, but I don't make nearly as much bread in the oven as I used to. In fact, scarcely at all, aside from pizzas, to my shame.
Last edited by hugecans on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dbairduk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:10 am

Hi Mike I read popkins thread. Maybe its our water in lancashire lol

hugecans I am using Allinsons flour and yeast... all bought on saturday morning.

Now when I stuck the ingredients in I was not careful as we had just returned from going out for a meal. So after catching up on xfactor :oops: I quickly chucked everyhting in before bed. I will be a bit more careful next time.

I have never made bread before this so didn't know what could touch and what couldn't.
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Postby Mike D » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:38 am

dbairduk wrote:

Maybe its our water in lancashire


It can't be..ours is Lake District best !

With the Panasonic m/c, (IIRC :roll:) the manual is quite firm about which order the ingredients are placed in the tin.

Do you have the manual at all?? Mine is the SD-253 and I have the manual somewhere as a PDF, just shout if you want it!
Cheers,


Mike
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Postby captain wassname » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:03 pm

It was all right when it left here but its been through 100+ miles of pipe plus you lot probably stick all sorts in it.

Jim
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Postby Mike D » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:50 pm

Captainwassname wrote:

It was all right when it left here


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I do have a well in my front cellar which is dug into the bedrock, so I could use that if I wanted to. This well was the water supply to mine and two of my neighbours until 1976 when the village got 'mains' water.... it may take as long to get a decent broadband speed too :roll:, but a few still view broadband as the devils work in this village. :shock:
Cheers,


Mike
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Postby dbairduk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:35 pm

there are alot of resivours round here to be honest. But I am originally from Wales and they pumped all our nice water to Birmingham and gave us some fowl tatsing rubbish!

My grandparents still have a well for their water supply in the lake district. Stingy old farmers :lol: But I know which I would prefer!

I have the manual, and thought I followed it eaxctly... well they turend out ok the time before...

I think I will put this down to
A) The roast duckling I had at the dog & partidge ...was not hungry enough to have my full attention.
B) The 5 pints of peroni ....Sure this must of affected my judgement somehow :lol:
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Postby captain wassname » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:45 pm

Mike: Have you use the well water for brewing?
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Postby Mike D » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:22 pm

@ Captain wassname

I haven't used it. It would be a little difficult now as I had to cap it off with concrete when I bought the house due to not being able to get house insurance - the insurance companies cited risk of flooding at the time (this was in 1993) :roll:

I can understand this, but as I am right on the top of a hill 900ft up, I would very much doubt it - if it did flood, I would spend my time collecting animals and building an ark as something serious would be amiss with the surrounding country.

It would be an easy matter to drill through and put a pipe down, but I would have to remove the timber floor I laid over the concrete slab when I converted my cellar to habitable rooms. If it became a necessity then I would and could do it.
Cheers,


Mike
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Postby dbairduk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:42 pm

Mike D wrote: If it became a necessity then I would and could do it.

well with global warming and irans nuclear developments you never know :o
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Postby Codhead180 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:47 am

Mike D wrote:Hi Dave,


I now use it for mixing and proving the bread dough only (I use the pizza setting), and do the remainder of the knocking back, rising and baking in the top and bottom ovens on the Rayburn. Obviously, this takes longer but I now know how long it takes and my bread is now exactly how I want it.

I don't think it is just Panasonic machines, as I had a Breville one prior to the Panny, and I was just as good at turning out bricks with that one. The problem is that the machine just works to a timer and does not 'see' how the loaf has risen (or not) as you would using the human touch. The Panny does make a great dough mixer though.


I think you have got it spot on Mike. I have been making my own bread for around a year now and started off with a cheapy cookworks machine from argos (£40). I got fed up with the inconsistent results and this is due to them working on a timer. In my experience every loaf is slightly different and best judged on an individual basis. I just use the bread machine for mixing dough and then knock back and then prove in the top oven and then bake in the bottom oven. I don't have any failures anymore; total time to produce a loaf approximately 2hrs 30 mins.
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Postby Mike D » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 am

Good to see someone agreeing with me... nice one Cod!

Breakdown of timings...

Mixing on preset dough setting, which does the first rise & knock back is 45 mins

Turn out into loaf tin for 2nd rise, which takes about 40 mins

Bake for 30 mins; so just shy of two hours and never have any bricks, sometimes rises too much, particularly if I take my eye off it. :roll:
Cheers,


Mike
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Postby Ruralidle » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:26 pm

I decided to leave the gadgets alone (I do use a Kenwood to bring the ingredients into a workable dough) and went on a bread baking course in Bath http://www.thebertinetkitchen.com/ . It cost about the same as a top of the range bread maker.

The result is nice light bread and - no bricks.

See the master baker - Richard Bertinet - demonstrating his method of bread-making here http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2 ... sweetdough although this is a video of making a sweet dough the method is the same for ordinary dough.

Only problem is that you can't come down to freshly baked bread in a morning!

Richard
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