www.sausagemaking.org

I've recently taken up bread making and am focused on various techniques using sourdough. I'm in the process of working on one recipe that calls for putting the dough in the ice box after the first rise and then pull it out and let it finish after 15 to 18 hours in the chiller. Why????

What is the purpose of stoping second rising action?

I'm no guru breadmaker but as I understand it refrigeration retards yeast growth and therefore slows fermentation and allows more flavor to develop from the same ingredients as a more rapid rise would allow.

That's right wunderdave, it develops flavour over a longer first prove.

Same theory for some crusty baguettes they take three days to make, A level of patience I am yet to achieve!!

Have fun

I do it with yeast and the flavour difference is massively noticeable.
I tried it with sour dough and didnt get the rise (not patient enough or my SD mother wasnt active enough.
Tried it with the flour and water no starter the results where good flavour wise but it was too difficult to incorporate the starter later.

More practice, more experimenting, more patience.

For what it's worth when I make my pizza doughs (for example) I usually make a double batch: 40 oz for 2 16" pies. I always refrigerate/cold-ferment at least overnight but up to 10 days.

Invariably I cook one of the doughs the next day, and one several days to a week later. The later-cooked one always has much more flavor and a better texture than the earlier-cooked one. This might be confirmation bias but my wife agrees.

I find after 3 days they turn a little play dohy and they dont rise for me

You can use the fridge for the bulk fermentation (1st rise) or for the final rise. Both methods enhance flavour and can be used almost interchangeably to suit your baking regime. Personally, I prefer to retard the final rise - if only because the wicker baskets are easier to fit in the fridge than the larger stainless steel bowls I use for bulk fermentation.

You can find loads of information on retarded doughs on http://www.thefreshloaf.com. Try using the search bar on the top left of the front page.

I have nevert tried the fridge method as I am still trying to master Sourdough to rise properly, I am still getting a flat heavy loaf.
All the good advise from shorter proofing, temperature variations etc still do not work.
My sourdough mother, when fed, works wonderful, it more than doubles itself everytime and the baked bread tastes very good.

Snags, I bought the culture from Uncle Bobs Bakery here in Brisbane( famous for sourdough bread) If you want some, I can mail you some, maybe you can persevere and solve my problem.
Regards,
Jan.

Hi crusto44

Visit The Fresh Loaf, there is a wealth of experience and advice on solving sourdough problems om that site. Are you using a banneton or just letting the loaf prove free form?

Ruralidle wrote:Hi crusto44

Visit The Fresh Loaf, there is a wealth of experience and advice on solving sourdough problems om that site. Are you using a banneton or just letting the loaf prove free form?

I've just started using bannetons, I'm thinking about letting the loafs rise upside down in the bannetons so I don't have to handle it so much to turn them out. Have you tried this?

There is another major advantage: You can make the dough in the evening, proof it overnight, and bake it in the morning; having fresh bread for breakfast.

crustyo44 wrote:I have nevert tried the fridge method as I am still trying to master Sourdough to rise properly, I am still getting a flat heavy loaf.
All the good advise from shorter proofing, temperature variations etc still do not work.
My sourdough mother, when fed, works wonderful, it more than doubles itself everytime and the baked bread tastes very good.

Snags, I bought the culture from Uncle Bobs Bakery here in Brisbane( famous for sourdough bread) If you want some, I can mail you some, maybe you can persevere and solve my problem.
Regards,
Jan.

Thanks for the offer Jan,I have heaps of sourdough starter and my one is working quite well.
Dont be afraid to stretch and refold your loaf before you shove it in the oven.
I had a few flat ones last weekend gave them a refold slapped them into shape gave them a slash and threw them in.
Great results,some of the best bread Ive ever tasted bought or my own.
I will try and replicate this weekend.
Thats the hard part.
The trick is wet hands and wet scrapers.
Im not having much luck with my bannetons sticking and tearing so ,I have been going free form.
Might try the upside down method.

I have one banneton only and the dough rises very well in it, does not stick due to rice flour but when I tip out on a baking tray, it always finish up flat
as usual.
Snags, I will give your method a go next week. As it so happens, I will be attending a baking demo here in Brisbane. All the baking gurus will be there including Brett Noy.
I certainly will be picking his brain if there is time.
Regards,
Jan.

I ALWAYS just upend the banneton onto my peel so that the top (seam side) of the loaf will slide onto my baking stone. This is by far the gentlest way to treat the dough.

There can be several problems that cause the dough to "slump". It could be the formula you are using (eg: if hydration is much over 70%) or it could be that the bacteria in the sourdough is destroying the gluten structure.

It is difficult to know without precise details of formula, method and - of great help - pictures. I bought one local bread flour that does not stand up well to my sourdough starters and after working-up OK then starts to revert to a loose dough before the yeastie-beasties have had chance to raise the loaf in the second proof.

This is a good youtube for folding techniques
first one is a dry mix in bannetons seconds is a very wet one
I do both though not as well as these two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45z18TtF ... re=related

so is this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1timJlCT ... re=related