equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Air dried cured Meat Techniques

equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby cashmkr2001 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:10 pm

You probably know equilibrium brining. It has previously been described on this forum. You weigh your ingredients and water, and add the amount of salt that will over time result in the desired salinity of both brine and meat.

I did a number of experiments, and in each and every one, no equilibrium could be achieved. Or, at least not at the desired salinity.

WHY? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!

1. Salmon
115 grams of salmon.
ca 290 grams of water
total weight = 500 grams
12 grams of salt
Forgot to measure the SG.
Desired salinity = around 24%
Desired SG = around 1018

+2 hours: 1026
+ 3 h: 1024
+10 h: 1024
+24 h 1026
Ate it.

2. Chickenbreast
160 grams Chickenbreas
+ 240 g wate
Total weight = ca 500 gram
+ 12 g salt.
Desired salinity is ca 25%
Desired SG= ca 1018

+0 h SG=1032.
+ 1 h: 1034
+2 h: 1034
+3 h: 1034
+ 12 h: 1034
+ 24 h: 1034
+ 48 h: 1034
Ate it: salty.

3. Porkbelly
Porkbelly 950 grams
950 grams water
Total weight is ca 1900 grams
28,5 grams salt + ca 2 grams sugar
Desired salinity ca 15%.
Desired SG = ca 1012

+0 h: 1022.
+10 h: 1022
+48 h: 1022
+72 h: 1022
+84 h: 1022
ate it, somewhat salty.

4. Porkbelly
Porkbelly 1025 grams
1025 grams water
Total weight is ca 2050 grams
61,5 grams salt + ca 2 grams sugar
Desired salinity ca 30%.
Desired SG = ca 1023

+0 h: 1042
+10 h: 1040
+48 h: 1038
+72 h: 1038
+84 h: 1038
+ 96 h: 1038
+ 7 days 1036
+ 9 days 1036
+ 11 days 1036
+ 12 days 1036
+ 13 days 1036
+ 16 days 1036
At 17 days now, currently still brining

5. Chickenbreast revisited
300 grams of chicken
200 gr water
total weight = 500 gr
15 grams of salt
Desired salinity ca 30%.
Desired SG = ca 1023

+ 0 h 1048
+ 12 h 1042
+ 48u 1040
+ 4 days 1038
+ 5 days 1038
+ 6 days 1036
+ 9 days 1036
Went bad, probably because of too much handling. Threw it out.

6. lean beef
520 grams of lean beef
420 grams water
total weight is 940
28 gr salt
Desired salinity = 30%
Desired SG = ca 1023
+ 0 h 1044
+ 11 h 1040
+ 36 h 1036
+ 3.5 days 1036
+ 6 days 1036
+ 8 days 1034
+ 9 days 1032
+ 10 days 1036
+ 13 days 1036
Went bad, probably because of too much handling. Threw it out.
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby wheels » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 pm

I think some of it is due to your expectation of the level of salinity that this brine will produce.

Take your last example, the lean beef, 520gm beef in 420gm water, with 28gm salt, will give a salt level in the meat at equilibrium of 2.89%.

It probably went bad because the you've got a brine of only 23° (6.25% salt). You need it higher for safe curing.

To achieve a cure that provides a safe level of salt for brining, but can be left to equilibrium, you'll need to aim for a total brine of around half the weight of the meat. It is easier to do this with a larger amount of meat, as with a small piece it's difficult to get the brine to cover it. 520gm of beef is also a bit borderline for this type of curing; smaller quantities of meat are said to behave differently when brined, to larger quantities.

HTH

Phil
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby cashmkr2001 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:51 pm

Thanks Phil,
You are probably right about the amount of water. However, that is not my main concern. What I meant is that, in theory, an equilibrium should be reached in which the salinity of the brine is equal to the salinity of the meat. That's the whole idea of equilibrium brining. In all of my examples, this does not happen. Chicken, beef of pork. Small pieces or larger pieces. I tested the pork today, after 20 days, the brine still has an SG = 1035. It hasn't changed in two weeks, but it is far from the SG it should be (around 1023).
So my question is: the equilibrium brining theory does not match my equilibriumbrining experimental results? Why?
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby wheels » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Of course, what we don't know is the quantity of brine after day 0. The US scientists tell us that the meat will become in equilibrium with the brine - that the two will become one system. If this is the case, then the water will also be trying to equal out. The meat already contains water, so we can't assume that the flow of water will be into the meat. I'll leave others to say how independently the salt and water can move, but have a gut feeling that which way the water content of the meat/brine is trying to move must have some effect. Certainly, the quantity of water making up the brine will change, which will inevitably alter the SG making it difficult to calculate the salt level of the meat from the SG of the brine.

I also don't see how the meat solids (i.e. the portion of the meat that isn't water) can form part of the calculation. They do not become at one with the brine, they remain a separate entity: it's the level of salt and water that they contain that becomes as one.

Have you cooked the meat and (say) compared it to a commercial product of known salinity? In the absence of tests to determine the meat's salt level, that would at least give you an idea of whether the cure's performing as expected.

added 16:50 1st Oct - it should also be noted that the research/discussion here has all been based on a 2:1 ratio of meat to brine. If the premise that the meat and brine become one system is to be believed than the ratio of one to the other will be relevant.

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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby Dibbs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:33 pm

Isn't it just that while the salt is going in soluble substances in the meat will be coming out and keeping the SG of the brine high?
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby Dibbs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:39 pm

According to the link below meat contains 3.5% soluble non protein substances.

http://animalscience-info.blogspot.co.u ... n-and.html
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby wheels » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:56 pm

That's true, and also 56-72% water.

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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby cashmkr2001 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:47 am

hm, interesting thoughts.
I measured the weight of the porkbelly after it was brined for 20 days. The weight had increased by 117 grams, which is 11%. So 11% of the water went out of the brine and into the pork, lowering the amount of brine and thereby increasing the salinity of the brine perhaps.
Also, maybe an SG meter is not the best of way to measure it, instead one could use a salinitymeter which is not influenced by soluble proteins. They're horribly expensive though.

I didnt try the porkbelly, after brining I smoked it, and now it's vacuumsealed in my fridge, so the salt has had plenty time to disperse further.
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby wheels » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:01 pm

You've 'hit the nail on the head', there are so many potential combinations of what the 117gm increase is that it's almost impossible to get accurate results this way. And, whose to say that only 117gm went in? Perhaps 200gm went in and then 83gm of something came out? (Daft, I know, but perhaps you grasp the gist of what I'm getting at).

Have you seen the two long threads about this which include NCPaul's tests and results?

They're here:

viewtopic.php?p=50493&highlight=ncpaul#50493

and

viewtopic.php?t=6314
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Re: equilibrium brining: why won't it work?

Postby cashmkr2001 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:20 am

Has anyone ever produced a table with approximated equilibriumbrining times for different kinds of meat, based on the 2:1 ratio for meat:brine?
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