help - failed salami - what do next time?

[Salilah]

I had a go at salami / saucisson sec - 2 weeks ago - today all 8 are showing dubious furry mould (see photos)

They were in a large plastic crate hung from a stick of wood - I had a bowl in the crate with salted water in there to keep humidity up - think it was running 80-90%.

Recipe was based on Marianski Milano Salami P435 -
952 lean shoulder
230 pork back fat
30g salt
2.6 (3)g cure 2
2g dextrose
3.2g sugar
3-6g mix of ground pepper, ground juniper, ground green cardamon - mainly pepper
about 6g smoked garlic crushed
0.13g (well, my closest to it - very small) T-SPX culture in quarter cup red wine - I used 3 x the smallest mini spoon (1/32 tsp) as the jewellers scale didn't show this measure

mixed the culture / wine in first, then the mix of herbs / sugar / salt / cure, and mixed by hand (spoon) then stuffed in hog casings

pricked, kept for 60hours or so around 20C, then hung in the plastic tub with water, towel over to keep dark (so no air) at around 10-14C

I weighed one - in 2 weeks it had gone from 120g to 110g so not a lot of weight loss

Advice please! Do I need to make sure I have a fan in the crate? It wasn't sealed as such, but the lid was on so no air flow. Is air more important than moisture?

Also - the Marianski book and the Charcuterie book I have didn't mention introducing a mould on the outside - however some other posts suggest this - would this have helped?

(I've got photos but I can't find how to add them to this post - sorry!! Will keep looking and see if I can add in a reply)

[Salilah]

Fingers crossed, here are the photos:

<img>http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p767/Salilah/sausage2dec13_zps2e056d19.jpg</img>

<img>http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p767/Salilah/sausage3dec13_zps5e77e016.jpg</img>

<img>http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p767/Salilah/sausage1dec13_zpsf7f695d9.jpg</img>

Hope this works!!
thanks
S

[BriCan]

I took the liberty of fixing -- hope you do not mind

Fingers crossed, here are the photos:







Hope this works!!
thanks
S

[BriCan]

I had a go at salami / saucisson sec - 2 weeks ago - today all 8 are showing dubious furry mould (see photos)

They were in a large plastic crate hung from a stick of wood - I had a bowl in the crate with salted water in there to keep humidity up - think it was running 80-90%.

Recipe was based on Marianski Milano Salami P435 -
952 lean shoulder
230 pork back fat
30g salt
2.6 (3)g cure 2
2g dextrose
3.2g sugar
3-6g mix of ground pepper, ground juniper, ground green cardamon - mainly pepper
about 6g smoked garlic crushed
0.13g (well, my closest to it - very small) T-SPX culture in quarter cup red wine - I used 3 x the smallest mini spoon (1/32 tsp) as the jewellers scale didn't show this measure

mixed the culture / wine in first, then the mix of herbs / sugar / salt / cure, and mixed by hand (spoon) then stuffed in hog casings

pricked, kept for 60hours or so around 20C, then hung in the plastic tub with water, towel over to keep dark (so no air) at around 10-14C

I would be around 15C with about 65% humidity and some air flow

I weighed one - in 2 weeks it had gone from 120g to 110g so not a lot of weight loss

Advice please! Do I need to make sure I have a fan in the crate? It wasn't sealed as such, but the lid was on so no air flow. Is air more important than moisture?

Air is as important as moisture but not as important as moisture

Also - the Marianski book and the Charcuterie book I have didn't mention introducing a mould on the outside - however some other posts suggest this - would this have helped?

It could/might have, but I think we have something else going on. Marianski's book Home production of quality meats and sausage page 435 Salami - Milano under notes at the bottom of the page says if mold is desired spray with M-EK-4 mold culture after stuffing

The above is not that which is worrying me -- its your mixing of ingredients

mixed the culture / wine in first, then the mix of herbs / sugar / salt / cure, and mixed by hand (spoon) then stuffed in hog casings

I know that Marianski in the Home Production book as well as the Art of making Fermented Sausage book gives a sought of one line of

Mix all ingredients with ground meat

The norm (not always) is to mix the starter culture with distilled water and is usually added to the meat mixture at the end just prior to stuffing

If we look at page 389 second paragraph we see the words in italics Starter cultures should not be mixed with salt, nitrite or spices in advance as unpredictable growth of culture bacteria may occur

For what it is worth I was always taught that starter cultures are mixed with distilled water and go into the mix last so not to kill the starter culture

I am sure that there will be others along to help and who are better versed in starter cultures than I am

Welcome by the way

[Salilah]

Hi BriCan - and thank you!
Very pleased you sorted the photos - and I'd love to know what you did, some time, as I really couldn't get it to work!!

Thanks for the idea - yes, I did the culture+wine then the salt mix, rather than the other way round - they were both quite close together - I could definitely replace wine with water, and do the salt mix first then finally the culture - though I reckon they were within 10mins?

I'm still wondering about the mould spray - I do sourdough bread and cheese (more successful with the bread than the cheese, though I can do a camembert!) - and with the cheese, sometimes it is better to add a spray of slurry even though the culture has the ingredients...

thanks again - much appreciated!
Anyone else any thoughts please to what I try next time, to avoid the waste?

[herjac]

+1 what BriCan said.

Culture, mix with distilled or boiled and cooled water and after 15-20 minutes (read directions) add last after all other ingredients have been added and mixed in. Others have said that they mix culture with wine instead of water but why risk the culture rehydration? The amount of water used is minimal.

After stuffing, the sausage needs to ferment in high humidity at the recommended temp until the pH drops.

After the pH drops, the sausage wants to hang at a lower temp, 12-15C at 70-75% RH. This is where your idea of the plastic crate wrapped in plastic fails. Your RH was too high with no air circulation. You need to find, or make, a place with the necessary conditions for dry aging. Where are you located?? You might have a good spot in the house in the winter to do this or you might need to make curing cabinet...

[NCPaul]

I think the salamis are going to need something larger than a plastic tub or the plastic tub will need a lot of controlled conditions. The most common choice seems to be old fridges or freezers, is this a possibility?

[Salilah]

Thanks everyone
It's quite a big tub (!) - but still a tub - maybe 3ft long x 2ft wide x 18" high - the salamis could hang fine without touching each other or the base. I don't have space for an old fridge or freezer as yet - I have 2 wine fridges (operational) which I use for the wine and for ripening cheese, they are currently around 6C to 10C; the crate was in the hobbies building which in winter is around 10C or less.
I could get a small PC fan and wire it up in there which would move the air around - and crack open the lid, and not put the bowl of water in
I'll have another go after Christmas...
many thanks
Salilah

[wheels]

In that space, I think that a computer fan would lead to case hardening. If your hobbies building is the right temperature, why use the box? Maybe test the RH of the room and see if it's OK.

Phil

[Wunderdave]

Speaking from personal experience a computer fan in a small fridge will lead to case hardening and salami failures.

Re: your wild molds, they're bad looking mucor molds as far as I can tell, and I'd probably write off the project as a fail at this time and start over. If you innoculate with MEK-4 or Bactoferm Mold 600 you will have a much higher success rate re: exterior molds.

As I understand it, having a healthy white mold colony outside your projects will assist with the proper drying/flavor of the inside, but I don't have enough experience to say whether this is actually the case or not.

[gnjk]

I had similar results on my first attempt a few weeks ago. The smell was terrible like rotting meat. I think I had a lack of air circulation as well as not fermenting them.
This I made them using a little fresh whey as my innoculate, 24 hours ferment at 18 to 20c then hung in 9 to 10 c with 79 to 84% humidity.
Now they look brilliant, smell nice and have no mould at all. Should I be concerned about 'no mould'? Thanks

[gnjk]

Update, hit 30% today so tasted my first ever salami. OMG what can I say, I am hooked its beautiful, such flavour. Can't wait to try the Bresoala

[Dryamilehi]

If you don't show pics it never happened:)