Bacon Cure replacing cure #1/#2/TQ?

[aris]

I'm wondering if the Franco/Lucas traditional bacon cure could replace Cure #1 or Cure #2 or Norton TenderQuick with some adjustment to amounts.

Does anyone know the proportions or nitrate/nitrite of the Lucas cure and if this could be done?

[Oddley]

Aris here is an excerpt from the traditional cure spec sheet. As you can see there is Salt, Sugar. Sodium Nitrite. Sodium Nitrate and Sodium Ascorbate in the cure.

If you look down the image to Test and then Nitrite you will see it seemingly has 0.36% - 0.54% nitrite in the cure this will give 108 - 162 Nitrite ingoing ppm or mg/kg I think this is right. It does not mention any amounts of Sodium Nitrate.

It can in my opinion be used at 30 gm per kg for curing any meat in a dry cure, wet cure and immersion cure. Although the last method is a bit expensive. But in the wet method and immersion method the cure has to be calculated so that the pump amount is right.

[aris]

Thanks for the Oddley

How about a substitute for Morton TenderQuick? I see this called for in various (mostly american) recipes.

[Oddley]

Morton Tender Quick is a mixture of salt, sugar, nitrite and nitrate. So you can use cure#2 with a bit of sugar added but for anyone reading this, use cure #2 in the amounts Franco recommends 1 gm per 1 lb of meat.

If the recipe was for say fresh sausage I think I would use cure #1. But it needs to be taken recipe by recipe. As you know different things need different cures.

If you want, Post a recipe and we can give opinions on what to use.

[aris]

I was looking at Bigwheel's hotlinks recipe. It calls for 3T of morton tenderquick.

6-7 lbs. Boston Butt
1 bottle beer
2 T. coarse ground black pepper
2 T. crushed red pepper
2 T. Cayenne
2 T. Hungarian Paprika
3 T. Morton's Tender Quick
2 T. Whole Mustard Seeds
1/4 cup minced fresh garlic
1 T. granulated garlic
1 T. MSG
1 t. ground bay leaves
1 t. whole anise seeds
1 t. coriander
1 t. ground thyme

[Oddley]

For this recipe I would use cure#1 as it is not a dried sausage. I would use 1 gm per 1 lb and 1/4 oz salt per 1 lb minus the weight of cure #1.

this means for

6 lb 0r 2.721kg meat use:

6 gm cure #1 = (130 ppm or mg/kg)
35 gm Salt at 1.5% (1 1/2 oz or 41 gm - 6 gm = 35 gm)
sugar (your choice)

All other ingredients the same.

I would mix the cure#1 in the meat and leave overnight.

[aris]

It's not dried, but it is smoked - which is why I think he puts the TQ. I think also that he gets a nice pink colour, and the "cured" taste.

If using a Lucas cure - how much would you use?

The thing that puzzles me too is that bacon cured with the Lucas cure is not dried - usually eaten fairly fresh.

[Oddley]

I personally wouldn't use the bacon cure in this application. Nitrite is the chemical that produces that pink colour and gives the cure taste. As these are going to be eaten relatively fresh I would use cure #1. The nitrite should protect the sausage during the smoking process if you are going to smoke immediately after making.

I think the Lucas cure is mainly nitrite so gives no long term protection.

[aris]

The Lucas cure has both E251 (Sodium Nitrate) and E250 (Sodium Nitrite).

Though, i'm not sure in what proportions. Does anyone know?

[Oddley]

Sorry aris I don't think I explained myself very well.

The thing that puzzles me too is that bacon cured with the Lucas cure is not dried - usually eaten fairly fresh.

The lucus cure contains largest to smallest amount:

Salt, Sugar, Sodium Nitrite, Sodium Nitrate, Sodium Ascorbate

There seems to be more Sodium Nitrite than Sodium Nitrate. We know sodium Nitrite in conjunction with Sodium Ascorbate will result in the nitrite changing to nitric oxide. The nitrite will therefore be at undetectable levels within 20 days. If the Levels of Nitrate are unable to change into Nitrite in sufficient quantity, the protection afforded will be limited.

The spec sheet as I have said seems to indicate the ingoing level of 108 - 162 mg/kg at 30 gm/kg. There is no info on the Nitrate.

I would also like to know the exact makeup of the Bacon Cure.

[aris]

If I wanted to do a pastrami - similar to Len Poli's recipe:

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/index_files/Pastrami.pdf

How much Lucas cure should I use per kilo of meat for an immersion cure? Len's recipe calls for pumping the brisket - but I don't have the equipment for that. I wonder if I could do an immersion cure instead.

[Oddley]

aris as I have said an immersion cure made with the traditional bacon cure is expensive. The reason being:

Meat will absorb naturally 8% - !0% it's own weight so for 1 kg meat it will absorb 80 - 100 gm if we make a decision and say it will absorb 10% it's own weight then for every 70 gms of water you must add 30 gm of cure or 43% of the weight of water. Now for 2.5 Liters which weights 2.5 kg we will need ( 2500 gm * 43% / 100 = 1075 gm cure).

If you wanted to do a wet method cure using say 700 gm water you would have to use 300 gm bacon cure which at 10% pump would do up too 10 kg before being exhausted.

If you find any fault with my logic please say.

[deb]

Aris, step 5 gives instructions for non-pumped meat.

Why use the Lucas cure as this recipe uses cure#1 rather than tenderquick?

[aris]

I want to use the bacon cure because I've got it at hand - I don't have any cure#1 handy (yet).

[deb]

I want to use the bacon cure because I've got it at hand - I don't have any cure#1 handy (yet).

Ah! This makes sense.