Sharpening knives

Where to buy, how to use. Stuffers, casings, spices, grinders, etc.

Postby othmar » Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:24 pm

Wohoki wrote:I make knives as a hobby, and I'm working towards being good enough to make them as a living, mostly after the Scandanavian/Lapp patern.

The best way of sharpening a knife is to use a Japanese waterstone. An 800 grit stone is a good start for a kitchen knife: it will produce an edge that with slice and shread anything you'll find a need to cut.

If you can find the funds to add a 1200 grit as well; you can perform surgery with your knife: this is wood-carving sharp. It will sail through a cut of meat like the proverbial hot knife through butter.

If you can be bothered, a 6000 grit will put a mirror-bright edge on your knife, and this will last as a razor sharp edge for a week or more. It gets a lttle scary.

At this level, a leather strop and some sharpening paste will (really!!) get it a little sharper, and add something to the durability of the edge, but it's not necessary for the kitchen.

I get my stones from Axminster Tools, and a little practice will have you bleeding all over the place. Have fun!


That is exactly what I use too. A Japanese water stone 500 and a Japanese 800. The final edge I put on the knife with two high quality Swiss Steels the, Isler super cut and the Isler extra fine super cut. The results are exactly as you say here it's like a surgical scalpel.

Having said that, the quality of the knife steel is very important. Not so long ago I sharpend a knife of a trainee, to show him how it is done, I never looked at the knife. Two hours later the knife was a dull as a wooden plank again, it was then that I looked at the knife and sure enough it was one of these cheap warehouse knives. It went streigt in the garbage and I gave him one of my knives to work with.

Personally I never liked oil stones because the steel residue will stick to it and actually make the knive dull again as you sharpen it. With water it simply can be rinsed off.
Meat is good and healthy Master Butchers Choice
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Postby Wohoki » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:47 pm

I agree with the point about the quality of the steel in a blade. I use mainly high carbon steel, which sharpens easily and holds an edge. Carbon steel blades have fallen into some disfavour because they will rust if they aren't completely dry when you put them away, but if you don't dry a knife properly then you'll end up with contaminated food and food poisoning, so it's not a problem if you take your kitchen seriously (as everyone does on this site :D .)
Stainless steel CAN be good, but for a given quality of edge (which is the important bit) high carbon is the cheaper and easier to use. There's no point to breaking the bank to buy a flash knife that is hard to sharpen and will spend all it's life in the back of a drawer, when you can get a knife for half the price that is a joy to use every day. (I had a Global chef's knife once: never again :evil: .)
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Postby aris » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:08 pm

So who makes high-carbon knives?
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Postby JFIELDS » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:11 pm

Wohoki wrote:(I had a Global chef's knife once: never again :evil: .)


Interesting. I recently got a Global Santoku, and so far, I love it. Of course, since it is new, I haven't had to sharpen it yet, but I got a water sharpener that is supposed made for that type of knife. My old (15+ years) el-cheapo Chicago Cutlery chef's knife was dying, so I figured I'd give something new for a try. What about it didn't you like? How did you try to sharpen it? I'm curious what I'm in store for...

Justin
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Postby Wohoki » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:20 pm

I didn't like the fact that the damnned thing snapped in normal usage within 12 months of purchase, and there is no way they'd replace it. It also took twice the effort to sharpen as my next "best" knife.

If you like it, use it. That's the secret, I just like a forged knife, with a bit of soul in the blade.
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Postby JFIELDS » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:56 pm

It snapped? Yeah, that would irritate me to no end, too. When I need to sharpen mine, I'll let you know how it goes.

I agree with you that so far as we both like our knives, that is what matters.
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Postby welsh wizard » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:34 pm

Hi all

Re Global knives - be careful where you buy them from

There are a LOT of fakes flying around. The easiest way to tell is ALL global knives come in a box - if it aint boxed it is probably not Global. If you tap the blade of a global knife it should not ring as it is a solid piece of steel. If it rings then you probably have a ringer (scuse the pun).

The old addage remians "you pay for what you get". If you want to see some fakes have a look on e-bay it is full of them - I know I have been done!

Proper Global knives are excellent, as are Gustaff Emill and Victorinox.

Personally I prefer to use a good steel to keep the edge sharp - but thats me!

Cheers WW
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Postby Paul Kribs » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:49 pm

I endorse wht WW says, all my meat preparation knives are Victorinox and I also use a steel to keep them in tip-top condition. I use the steel evry 5 -6 cuts.. I do like it to do the job it is designed to do. Even my cleaver has the Victorinox non-slip handle and you could (carefully) shave with it.

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Postby Wohoki » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:40 am

My Global was the real thing, bought from a cook shop, boxed and all. All I was doing with it was hold the roast down while I pulled the fork out and the blade snapped clean off where it joined the handle. I returned it to Global, who told me there was a flaw, but it was still my fault that it broke and I could sod off. Like I said, not impressed.

I'll concede that this is not the typical experience, and I wouldn't worry if you have one, but you'll understand my bitterness.

I use mainly Japanese knives, but I buy the ones that are made for the Japanese market rather than for export (like Global). I can post a link to a great site that ships out of the US (if it's OK to post commercial sites here?) at very fair prices.
I also have some Victorinox boning knives, a couple of home-built chefs knives (also carbon) and a couple of carbon steel Chinese cleavers for heavy work.

I agree with all the comments about Victorinox, they're great value as well as nice to use.
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Postby ockie » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:36 pm

:D , post it post it for goodness sake. Where can such implements be sourced, both Japanese and Victorinox? :twisted:
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Postby Oddley » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:42 pm

Both types of knives can be got next day delivery, HERE.
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Postby welsh wizard » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:45 am

Ho Ocki

Try Scobies they are keen on price for knives.

Cheers WW
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Postby Wohoki » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:55 pm

I have bought a fair few knives from this company in the States. I would recommend anyone interested to sign up for their "Gold Club", as they offer some great discounts (40% at times and they offer free postage to the USA and Canada,) and they charge postage to the EU at cost:

http://www.worldknives.com/index.asp

I'd recommend:

http://www.worldknives.com/manufacturer.asp?manuid=40

for Japanese kitchen knives,

and:

http://www.worldknives.com/manufacturer.asp?manuid=35

for traditional Scadanavian knives (I've gralloched, skinned and dressed whole deer with just one of the hunting knives, and then cut myself to the bone with it afterwards, having sharpened it once before starting, great fun :D . I also have a Grandmother in my coat pocket as a permanent resident.).

Please give them a link to this thread if you do get in touch, it might be worth Franco giving them a proper link.
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Postby ockie » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:29 pm

Thanks for the info chaps, most informative :P
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High Carbon Japanese Knives

Postby Simon » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:24 pm

So who makes high-carbon knives?

If you live in London I highly recommend a visit to the Japanese Knife Company www.japaneseknifecompany.com, 131 Belsize Road NW6: probably the best known knife company in London among London chefs, and run by a highly knowlegeble man who has himself trained as a master knife maker in Japan: it is a real experience visiting his shop if he is there : do not expect to be there less than 3 hours if you start talking to him about knives, steel, blades and sharpening. I once booked a one hour knife sharpening lesson with him (�30) and was still there 5 hours later...They sell all sorts of knives including hand forged high carbon Japanese chefs knives.
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