Which Knives

Where to buy, how to use. Stuffers, casings, spices, grinders, etc.

Postby Fallow Buck » Wed May 31, 2006 9:53 am

I agree with Paul.

The flexible (slightly) knife is a benefit in the right hands and at the right time. I use my Victorinox 6" boning knife to take the sirloinsout of a Fallow deer, but use my fish filleting knife to remove the sinew and tendons on the outside of the meat. If used like you would when skinning fish it leave little or no waste.

As for a cleaver It is rare that I will use one, preferring to use a saw which leaves less splinters.

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Postby moggy » Wed May 31, 2006 10:03 am

Fallow Buck wrote:
As for a cleaver It is rare that I will use one, preferring to use a saw which leaves less splinters.


I find a cleaver is the weapon of choice when removing skin from pork - less likely to slip than with an ordinary knife - use it to slice rather than chop
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Postby dougal » Wed May 31, 2006 11:33 am

For knives, my dry and analytical thinking views the blade shape, blade material and the ergonomics (handle, balance, grip, total weight, comfort, etc) as different aspects.
And I think its important to recognise that butchery is somewhat different to "general kitchen" usage.

AFAIK, the Victorinox range with plastic handles are economical, give a good grip in messy conditions and sanitise easily.
But they are made from a steel that in comparison to Japanese blades is relatively soft. This means they are also tougher (in the sense of less brittle and easily damaged). But this means that (apart from damage to the blade) the cutting edge will dull faster and need more frequent attention.

Global is one of the most recognised Japanese prestige brands. But although they are 'a cut above' many 'ordinary' kitchen knives, they are (apart from the branding) not all that special, it would seem, compared to some of the spectacular products that the Japanese industry offers.
However, the suitability of these Ferraris for the job of a Ford Transit has to be in question.

However, any knife can only be as good as its edge preparation.
I learned a great deal from the long and detailed tutorial published on eGullet.
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036
As this explains, a steel is a great help to *maintain* an edge, but its not the tool to create, repair or restore one.
For butchery, I'd expect that a really good edge on the tip of the blade would be of much more importance than for general kitchen use...

From watching butchers (on view in the front of the shop), I think that they find a nasty, stiff little knife just as useful as I have in my own occasional ragged efforts...

But back to the Victorinoxes. They are downright cheap, especially compared to the fancy Japanese stuff. Cheap enough to try a variety of different shapes of blade, both to allow you to find what works best for you and to have appropriate tools for different tasks. (Good enough excuses for you? :D )
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Postby Fallow Buck » Wed May 31, 2006 12:11 pm

A tip I learnt a while back for removing skin or thin layers of sinew is to place the meat skin side down and use a slightly flexible blade facing away from you.If you make the cut and hold the blade flat against the skin then with your other hand behind the blade pull the skin towards you . Theis means that you have no body parts you want to retain in front of the blade and you need to apply mnimal pressure on the knife thus reducing the chance of it slipping. It works especially well on skinning fish but isn't bad on small bits of pork too.

I use it a lot on venison that has very little fat.

Rgds,
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Postby Wohoki » Wed May 31, 2006 12:25 pm

I do exactly the same. Hold the skin and waggle it side to side, and I still have 9 and a half fingers :D
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Postby vinner » Wed May 31, 2006 2:57 pm

I use a Victorinox 6" for boning. BTW, butchers over here will sharpen your knives for a very reasonabe fee. 3 or 4 times a year, and consistent steel use, and I always have sharp blades.
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Postby akesingland » Wed May 31, 2006 7:30 pm

Dear All

I don't do butchery, but use Global Knives in my kitchen. I have an old crappy knife that I give to my partner. I'm Precious over my knives. Knives are horses for courses, find what you like. Keep 'em sharp though!

Cheers
Adam
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Postby pokerpete » Wed May 31, 2006 9:17 pm

dougal wrote:For knives, my dry and analytical thinking views the blade shape, blade material and the ergonomics (handle, balance, grip, total weight, comfort, etc) as different aspects.
And I think its important to recognise that butchery is somewhat different to "general kitchen" usage.

AFAIK, the Victorinox range with plastic handles are economical, give a good grip in messy conditions and sanitise easily.
But they are made from a steel that in comparison to Japanese blades is relatively soft. This means they are also tougher (in the sense of less brittle and easily damaged). But this means that (apart from damage to the blade) the cutting edge will dull faster and need more frequent attention.

Global is one of the most recognised Japanese prestige brands. But although they are 'a cut above' many 'ordinary' kitchen knives, they are (apart from the branding) not all that special, it would seem, compared to some of the spectacular products that the Japanese industry offers.
However, the suitability of these Ferraris for the job of a Ford Transit has to be in question.

However, any knife can only be as good as its edge preparation.
I learned a great deal from the long and detailed tutorial published on eGullet.
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036
As this explains, a steel is a great help to *maintain* an edge, but its not the tool to create, repair or restore one.
For butchery, I'd expect that a really good edge on the tip of the blade would be of much more importance than for general kitchen use...

From watching butchers (on view in the front of the shop), I think that they find a nasty, stiff little knife just as useful as I have in my own occasional ragged efforts...

But back to the Victorinoxes. They are downright cheap, especially compared to the fancy Japanese stuff. Cheap enough to try a variety of different shapes of blade, both to allow you to find what works best for you and to have appropriate tools for different tasks. (Good enough excuses for you? :D )


Those nasty little stiff knives, as you call them, are the last usage of what was once a 6 inch boner. Their final function is to detach the meat from the chinebone to allow the new(ish) 6 inch boner access to complete detachment. You cannot buy this this type of knife as far as I know, as keeping an edge on it would be beyond the skills of a hobbyist.
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