steamship round

[oakley]

i have been asked to cook 3 60lb steamship rounds.
they want me to cook it on a grill but i think you have to braise it
i would like to braise it the day before and then finish on the grill the next day
i am just worried because i have never cooked this cut of meat beafore
it is the whole leg as i understand
thanks

[saucisson]

Not a term I've come across, anyone else?

Dave

[wheels]

From Google:

http://www.beeffoodservice.com/cuts/info.aspx?code=29

I'd never heard of it either!
Phil

[RodinBangkok]

First, do you have the proper size equipment to do 3 primal cuts this size?

It really depends on the size of equipment you have. I would not recommend doing in advance, then trying to bring to serving temp a second time.

You want to take them to about 140 internal. If using a grill it would need to be indirect, low and slow.

Last one I did in a convection oven went like this:

Preheat oven to its max temp. In a full size hotel pan spread a layer of mirpoix with water to cover about half way up. Place a rack over this. Rub the rosst with sea salt and coarse cracked black pepper. In the oven for about 45 minutes. Pull the pan and cover with foil tight, reduce temp to about 300 and finish to internal of 140, rest for at least 30 minutes and put on carving station. This is a show piece cut that impresses with its size and presentation. If your not after that part of the show, do smaller cuts, a lot less hassle.

You can pretty much do the same on a grill or smoker, but needs to be indirect, and do not overcook, and has to be a large grill!

I'd recommend you try one on your own before committing to doing 3 with no previous experience.

[oakley]

well i saw the grill today it is a charcol grill and its about the size of a small chevy car .
i think i want to cook it in one piece i am excited i get the meat tommorow
i was going to get it going early in the morning at a high temp get some colour and then cool the grill down to 300 degrees i have a infer red thermometer . and cook it for about 5 to 6 hours till an internal of 130
and then rest in silver foil for a couple of hours will i cook the chicken then i thought i would temp the meat and decide the holding temp
i need a little luck but i think it could work
the one thing i am worried about is that there is no bone so there will be no reflected heat from that does that change any thihing?

[vagreys]

well i saw the grill today it is a charcol grill and its about the size of a small chevy car .
i think i want to cook it in one piece i am excited i get the meat tommorow
i was going to get it going early in the morning at a high temp get some colour and then cool the grill down to 300 degrees i have a infer red thermometer . and cook it for about 5 to 6 hours till an internal of 130
and then rest in silver foil for a couple of hours will i cook the chicken then i thought i would temp the meat and decide the holding temp
i need a little luck but i think it could work
the one thing i am worried about is that there is no bone so there will be no reflected heat from that does that change any thihing?

Hi. There are some adjustments you will need to make, and there are a lot of really bad recipes for steamship round on the internet. Pay attention to RodinBangkok's experience. I've cooked primal cuts in charcoal cookers for up to 450 people.

You will need to bring the three roasts up to room temperature before you put them in to cook, or they will not complete in time, by several hours.

You need a meat thermometer with a long probe. An infrared thermometer is fine for cooking surfaces and foods that are not too thick, but you need to know the temperature near the core of these 50-60 lb roasts, or you may end up with a well-done roast at the surface that is raw at the center, especially if it is still chilled when you start cooking.

You don't have a forced air convection oven, your cooking time will be longer. For 50-60 lb roasts, about 6-8 hours at 300°F, depending on the weather.

The round roasts that make up a steamship round are very lean. In a charcoal grill, you will want to turn the roasts a quarter turn every 15-20 minutes, to keep the juices evenly distributed. The roasts will be less dry when done.

You cannot cook these over direct heat. Assuming that the grill is wider than it is deep, you will need to bank the coals across the front and back of the grill and cook the roasts over indirect heat, lining the roasts up end-to-end down the center of the grill, spaced a few inches apart, so they are receiving indirect heat from the sides, for even cooking. To keep an even temperature, you will need to supplement the coals every 45 minutes or so. If you don't want too much charcoal smoke from the new charcoal, you will want to start the coals in another location and distribute the lighted coals along the coal banks with a shovel.

The roasts will brown sufficiently without having to sear them with high heat at the start. After 6-8 hours, they will be beautiful.

130°F at the center is too cool. After you remove them and let them rest, they will still be too rare in the center. I agree with RodinBangkok - you want to cook them to an internal temperature of 140°. After 10-20 minutes rest, the roasts will have risen about 10 degrees at the center. Most people do not appreciate truly rare meat. You are cooking for a large group and most will prefer their meat more done.

The thermal efficiency of the meat will keep it warm for carving, but you will overcook the meat if you allow it to cool and try to reheat it. When you pull it off the grill, you will need to be prepared to carve it without reheating. If your chickens average 4 lbs, then they will cook over indirect heat at about 20 minutes per pound, so about 80 minutes. If you keep the roasts under foil for that time, they will be warm, but cooling by the time you start carving.

Good luck, however you end up approaching it. Cooking for large groups is challenging, but fun when it all works out.

[oakley]

thanks for all the detail and great tips it will help me a lot i have a few mor questions.
should i seasone the meat and leave it in a cool basment overnight?
so if i get the fire going at one end i can rotate the meat directly on the grill the side away from the coal should i close the lid between turns or should i leave it open and would it help if i put a small pan of water under the meat to create steam
thanks

[vagreys]

thanks for all the detail and great tips it will help me a lot i have a few mor questions.
should i seasone the meat and leave it in a cool basment overnight?

Others may have different opinions on this. I wouldn't, myself, because these are boneless, so the meat has been cut and exposed to the center. Overnight is a long time for bacteria to multiply on the cut meat surfaces, and with the center of the roast being served rare, you don't want to risk any more contamination than necessary. I also wouldn't let salt sit on the roast that long before cooking. Letting the roasts sit at room temperature for several hours beforehand should allow the temperature to rise some, and if you season for that resting time, it should be sufficient.

RodinBangkok's seasoning was sea salt and coarse black pepper.

Another seasoning blend for beef roast you might consider:
14 Tablespoons Kosher salt
2 2/3 Tablespoons rubbed sage
1 1/3 Tablespoons dried thyme leaves
1 teaspoon dried oregano
1 teaspoon medium-ground black pepper (you may want more - this was originally developed for standing rib roasts)

so if i get the fire going at one end i can rotate the meat directly on the grill the side away from the coal should i close the lid between turns or should i leave it open and would it help if i put a small pan of water under the meat to create steam

You can't bank the coals at one end and successfully cook three 60-lb roasts in this timeframe. They will not cook evenly and you will have to manipulate them way too much. The roast closest to the coals will cook much faster than the others, and quickly. You really do need to bank the coals along both long sides of the chamber, with the roasts lined up down the middle on the grill, so they are getting heat from both sides, but not directly underneath. If you do that, a quick turn is all it takes - no shuffling roasts constantly.

You should cook them with the lid closed as much of the time as possible. So, opening to turn the roasts a quarter turn, turning quickly, then closing right away. If there is a door to the fire chamber, using that door, instead of the lid, for adding coals. The necessary opening and closing of the lid is why it will take longer to cook.

A water pan won't have much effect in a large charcoal cooker, unless you use RodinBangkok's approach of placing each roast on a rack in a pan with water below, covered by a foil tent. If you take this approach, then you will have to brown the roasts over direct coals, first, because they won't brown much under foil and steam.

If anyone else has suggestions, please chime in.

[Nutczak]

I have done alot of steamship rounds in my time, done them in gas-fired ovens, electric slow-cook ovens (Alto-Shaam cook & hold) and in wood fired BBQ pits and over charcoal on a rotisserie.

Rare is not the temp you want to serve this primal cut of meat at, you want to be more near medium or a little under medium. Remember this is the hind leg of the cow you are cooking, it is where the "Rounds" are derived from. it is not tender like a sirloin or rib section. they can be very tough and the extra cook time will help with that issue.

Letting the meat come up to ambient temperature?? Not a chance in hell! you are asking for trouble with bacterial growth and possibly getting people sick.

Some pictures of the cooker would help to determine a plan of action. Is it a "direct-heat" cooker or does it have a seperate firebox and use indirect heat for a source?

Either way, you do not want the meat directly above the coals or fire to avoid excessive charring and grease flare-ups.

I would say to give yourself 14-16 hours of cooking time, start at 300 degrees and keep it there until the internal temp hits 120'ish, then according on how much time you have left before serving time, adjust your temperature accordingly, never cook under 225 degrees though, unless it is fully cooked to your desired finsih temp, then you can hold the meat between 140-160 safely with little over cooking.

lets see some pictures of the cooker, or at least post a manufacturers name and model so we know what you are dealing with.

[vagreys]

...Rare is not the temp you want to serve this primal cut of meat at, you want to be more near medium or a little under medium...Letting the meat come up to ambient temperature?? Not a chance in hell! you are asking for trouble with bacterial growth and possibly getting people sick...never cook under 225 degrees though...

I'm curious about some of your statements and interested in your perspective.

What core temperature are you suggesting? If the roast is pulled at 140°F and allowed to rise to around 150°F, then it is well above the CCP for large roasts. Further at those temperatures, that would give the core of the roast a "rare" look while being in the lower medium-to-medium-rare temperature range, with the majority of the roast at medium to well-done.

Pulling large cuts of meat out of refrigeration for 2-3 hours prior to hot smoking or long cooking at lower temperatures, to allow the meat to approach room temperature, is standard practice for some styles of cooking and results in significantly shorter cooking times. Large cuts of beef and pork are treated this way and normally cooked at temperatures of 210°F to 225°F (and as low as 190°F) for barbecue with no ill effects. I'm particularly interested in hearing more about why you recommend never cooking below 225°F, because I routinely cook whole pork shoulders low and slow, between 210°F and 220°F.

I'm curious about the risk of illness you perceive from allowing the roasts to sit at room temperature before long cooking at 300°F. Almost all bacteria causing food poisoning are killed at temperatures between 130°F and 140°F, and if the roasts are not pulled until the core temperature reaches 140°F, then even the core of the roast would exceed 145°F for well over 4 minutes, virtually eliminating the risk of food-borne illness from the roast. As I'm sure you are aware, most food poisoning from steaks and roasts comes from contaminated food prep surfaces, not the cooked meat itself.

Also, could you please elaborate on that temperature regimen you recommended at the end of your post? It might be a useful technique to know for some of the large-group cooking I do, if it truly can be adapted to large, charcoal cookers that don't have refined temperature control.

[oakley]

i thought it would take me 8 hrs not 14 to 16.
i have been a chef for 18 years i always get meat to room temp befor i cook it. the muscle needs to relax before cooking to.
the grill i thought i was cooking on does not work so on sat i will find out what i am cooking on. It might have a spit . if so i will use that ( do i need to get the spit hot before i skewer the meat?)
then it will be easier as i am worried about opening the lid so if there is no spit i am going to place coals eaither end of the bbq meat in the middle and i am going to turn the meat on the hour
to a temp 140
hopefuly in 8 hrs/ 10
rest for 30 mins before carving
would be interested if anybody has a temp the meat shoud be at at half way through cooking so
thanks

[vagreys]

Sorry I'm seeing this so late, but if you happen to check one more time before going to your site...

No, you do not need to get the spit hot before skewering, but you do need to be sure that the spit will support the weight of the meat. I watched someone put a 60-lb pig on a spit, once, and the spit flexed so much that it wouldn't turn.

Indirect coals are still best for the rotisserie, otherwise the outside of the roast may cook too fast.

I usually calculate cooking time by weight for a projected temperature and don't check temp until I get close to the end of the estimated cooking time.

Good luck with your event, today!

i thought it would take me 8 hrs not 14 to 16.
i have been a chef for 18 years i always get meat to room temp befor i cook it. the muscle needs to relax before cooking to.
the grill i thought i was cooking on does not work so on sat i will find out what i am cooking on. It might have a spit . if so i will use that ( do i need to get the spit hot before i skewer the meat?)
then it will be easier as i am worried about opening the lid so if there is no spit i am going to place coals eaither end of the bbq meat in the middle and i am going to turn the meat on the hour
to a temp 140
hopefuly in 8 hrs/ 10
rest for 30 mins before carving
would be interested if anybody has a temp the meat shoud be at at half way through cooking so
thanks

[Nutczak]

I'm curious about some of your statements and interested in your perspective.

Pulling large cuts of meat out of refrigeration for 2-3 hours prior to hot smoking or long cooking at lower temperatures, to allow the meat to approach room temperature, is standard practice for some styles of cooking and results in significantly shorter cooking times. Large cuts of beef and pork are treated this way and normally cooked at temperatures of 210°F to 225°F (and as low as 190°F) for barbecue with no ill effects. I'm particularly interested in hearing more about why you recommend never cooking below 225°F, because I routinely cook whole pork shoulders low and slow, between 210°F and 220°F.

A pork shoulder is significantly smaller than a steamship roast or baron of beef. Cooking under 225 degrees would subject the interior of that roast to prime bacterial growth conditions for several hours

I'm curious about the risk of illness you perceive from allowing the roasts to sit at room temperature before long cooking at 300°F. Almost all bacteria causing food poisoning are killed at temperatures between 130°F and 140°F, and if the roasts are not pulled until the core temperature reaches 140°F,
Althought the bacteria may be killed at 140 degrees, the toxins and spores that the bacteria have produced is not neutralized. I will never cook any large piece of raw uncured meat at a temperature lower than 250 degrees until the interior reaches 120-130 degrees then I will lower the temp to nothing lower than 225. This is for a few reasons, one is to limit bacterial growth, the other is to seal the roast by searing the outer edges of the meat to keep more natural juices inside.
I am also a "licensed food manager" and bound by the laws and guidlines I must follow to not be cited by the heath department while operating my BBQ catering business, so yes I am familar with charcoal and wood cooking

Also, could you please elaborate on that temperature regimen you recommended at the end of your post? It might be a useful technique to know for some of the large-group cooking I do, if it truly can be adapted to large, charcoal cookers that don't have refined temperature control.
I do not let meat come up to room temperature before cooking, it comes from the cooler, get seasoned and prepped, and into the cooker. the time needed to warm an entire steamship round, or baron of beef that weight 80+ pounds would lead into 8-10 hours to raise that internal temperature from 36-38F up to 60-75F. and the bacterial growth would be trememdous during that time. Although the inside of meat is known to be sterile, we also have no way of knowing that the meat was not pierced in some way and that may have introduced bacteria present on the outside or on the tool that pierced the meat, deep into the interior providing a "No Oxygen environment and perfect temperature for botulinum, perfringens or many other nasty bacterium to propogate. It is a gamble that you have taken and came out on top, just becuase nobody wa sickened so far, does not mean it wil not happen. the odds are low, but still too high for me to risk therefore creating a food illness outbreak.

[oakley]

thanks everyone for your help
It was perfect the meat was every degree of cooked depending were you sliced and i had one of my souschefs help me and we both found the carving very interesting seeing were all the cuts were etc.
i would cook this cut of meat again in a heart beat.
i smoked it with maple wood at 190 for 1 hr 30 mins and then cranked her up to 350 for 6 hrs then i lifted the lid and let it rest with the fire at a medium heat
A lot of luck and a little skill made for a dream wedding for my freinds
locals from town were coming up to me in the street the next day to say great meat son ( i rpliied thats whAT SHE SAID)..

[vagreys]

Fantastic! It's great to hear about success! Congratulations.