CORNED BEEF TO PASTRAMI

[hoodoobluesman]

YO ,
today tue/3/7/06 i purchased a couple of corned beef points.
these were $1.29 a lb. they are a little more than 3 lbs each.

on wednesday i will start soaking them in water in fridge.

thursday i will change water a couple of times.

friday morn i will smoke them on my
electric water smoker with mesquite chips.

i am told this will make it PASTRAMI.

i will post the results this weekend.

[Epicurohn]

1) I don't think Mesquite will give you an authentic Pastrami flavor.

2) You need to cover the brisckets will cracked pepper and coriander seed. I also add some sharp paprika and a bit of cayenne.

3) Were these briskets cured?

David

[hoodoobluesman]

yo epi,
they are already cured for corned beef and
uncooked in cry-o-vac packages.

mesquite smoking will vary the taste slightly of original corned beef as opposed to any other hard wood.

the way its been told to me is that you must smoke
corned beef to make pastrami.

i dont know what the original pastami was smoked with.
i dont know the origins of pastrami.
this is my 1st time trying this.

i am told they must be soaked in water because if you dont the
salt will be excessive.

i usually cook the corned beef in crock pot right from bag with cabbage.
too salty has never been a problem.

[Epicurohn]

The recipe I have calls for Oak. I have tried Hickory and Nance (Sub-Tropical fruit hardwood). The latter are mellower than Mesquite and they cover the Spice flavor too much for my taste. Yes I also soak in TWO changes of water overnight in the fridge, after a good rinse.

They eat Pastrami and Corned Beef all over the place: Germany, Poland, Russia, Ireland, New York, etc. The original wood could be one of those Eastern European types like Beech or Juniper.

My Pastrami came out too dry so it was suggested to me in this forum to only smoke 4 Hrs. @170�F and then roast in the oven @350�F 'till internal 200�F over a waterpan. Once in the oven the briskets should be wrapped in foil.

David

[Wohoki]

Certainly going to cause a few problems here in the UK, as the product known as corned beef here is a tinned product, made by chopping cheap cuts of (Brazilian) beef, mixing them with nugets of salt (corns) and pressure cooking them in the can. It's also known as bully-beef.

I think that what you're talking about is known here as salt-beef, which is boiled with veg and spuds (as in "Boiled beef and carrots", a formerly-popular Music Hall song) and is very tasty, but no longer popular. I'll have a trawl though some of my old cook-books and see what I can find.

Pastrami is cured and pepper-encrusted smoked brisket, I think from Poland.

[Rik vonTrense]

Pastrami is just a way of preserving beef by salting and spicing it......either can be done with a defatted brisket by dry salting or immersing in a brine for three or four weeks and then smoking it in a smoker.

This is another description.....To make pastrami, you start by making corned beef. Corned beef is a beef brisket soaked in brine (with some sugar and spices). According to "The Joy of Cooking," corned beef "has nothing to do with corn but got its name...when a granular salt the size of a kernel of wheat -- corn to a Briton -- was used to process it." By smoking corned beef, you turn it into pastrami! Smoking adds flavor to the meat.

Corned beef gets it name from the same source my using grains of salt the size of wheat berries.

Facinating ....ennit.


.

[Epicurohn]

Rik,

You forgot the most important part of making either corned beef or pastrami: the cure.


In this case Cure#1. This allows the pastrami to be smoked for several hours without the meat going bad. It also gives the meat it's rossy pink color.


David

[Rik vonTrense]

Hi John......

I was trying to point out the difference between what we in the UK term as "Corned Beef" which comes to us in 12 oz or 7lb tins usually from the south American beef producers, which appears to be the whole cow put into a tin an pressure cooked so that it keeps for donkeys years.....it is a staple standby for any British home....there is always a tin of corned beef in the cupboard for a quicky meal whether it's a corned beef and pickle sandwich or a corned beef hash..........

and the American term of corned beef which appears to be prepared brisket.

Having never done any curing of meats I assumed that the brine or nitrates used in salting was sufficient to keep the meat from going bad.

Anyway it's nice to know and maybe I will have a go at making some pastrami later on.

.

[Epicurohn]

Isn't the Irish corned beef cured?

That kind of meat product in the States is generally refered to as Spam.
They love that stuff in Hawaii or Pago-Pago.

I just made some modified Corned Beef with Beef Rump instead of brisket (the locally available briskets are under 3# which is way too small). 5# Raw meat 2 Lts brine cured with 250 grm salt, 125 grm sugar, 1 Tbsp cure1, 4 garlic and 2 Tbsp picking spice for one week in fridge. Rinse well. Let salts settle for 2 Hrs @ambient. Simmer 'till internal 200�F with 2 chopped onions, � parsley bunch & 1 tsp whole thyme.

The dryness issue has improved drastically with the use of rump instead of briskett but it's still a bit lacking in moisture. Thought about presssure cooking (High-and-fast instead of low-and-long). Any ideas? A local vendor is suggesting Sodium Tri-Polyphosphate. Any experiences?


David

[tristar]

Hello David,

Interesting that you have a question about Tri-polyphosphate, I have just recently purchased a second hand book in Indonesia, which promises to reproduce all of the various types of sausages available on the local market (all hot-dog style). Each and every recipe calls for Sodium Tri-polyphosphate! I will be watching the replies to your post with great interest even though your request is for information related to it's use in Corned Beef.

Regards,
Richard

[Wohoki]

We have Spam in the UK (how many of us suffered Spam fritters at school ) and it's pork based, rather than beef. SPiced pork and hAM.

I'm guessing that corned beef over here used to be what you call corned beef, and they called the tinned product after this dish which then went out of favour, but the tinned stuff remained.

[aris]

This is what corned beef means to a Brit:

[hoodoobluesman]

yo,
yo
i put a small corned beef brisket point in my smoker.

smoked corned beef is pastrami.

it turned out good but not great.

you have to soak corned beef [from cry-ovac pack] for 24/48 hrs.

thats in h2o, changing water a couple of times.

the c beef i usually put in crock pot.
this turns out great.
my honey ,margaret loves the crock method.

so my couple of times a year the pastrami craving will be deli fed.

just to much work for ONLY good pastrami


in the U.S. corned beef and cabbage is the traditional meal for our celabration or st. patty's day-----march 17th.

there is much partying in U.S. on this day.

green is color of the day.

dyed green beer is consumed by the sons of erin.


on this day we celebrate the irish immigrants to our melting pot.

[Rik vonTrense]

Such a quaint language....you learn something new everyday no matter how old you are.

I ALWAYS thought that Corned beef and Cabbage were slices of tinned corned beef, as we in the UK know it, and cabbage.

Now I realise it is slices of processes Brisket and boiled cabbage...must be similar to our "Boiled Beef and Carrots".....

Boiled beef and carrots,
Boiled beef and carrots,
That's the stuff for your "Darby Kel",
Makes you fat and it keeps you well.
Don't live like vegetarians,
On food they give to parrots,
From morn till night blow out your "kite"
On boiled beef and carrots.

an old English ditty..................


.

[hoodoobluesman]

yo,
the corned beef in cry-o-vac package ic already cured.

i did wonder if soaking it in water would leech out the cure.

the 3 lb. corned beef brisket [point cut] took 7 1/2 hours ,

to reach 170 degrees. thats internally in thickest part off meat.

this was in my electric water smoker.