franco's wiltshire cure

[Wohoki]

Hunterman, whan I've cooked whole cured hams, I soak it in several changes of cold water for 36 hours, then bring it to a gentle boil, change the water and re-boil. Then I just stick it in the oven with the lid on at 80-90C overnight (about 10-12 hours) and then let it cool in the liquor. Works a treat.
You can then either reheat it on the stove in fresh water (slowly and with cold water, takes about an hour for a ten pounder), or skin it and glaze it in a hot oven.

[akesingland]

I have tried contacting Franco by phone, PM and e-mail. I still have not had an answer from him regarding the length of time in the brine per Kilo.

Cheers
Adam

[Franco]

I have just had this letter back from the cure manufacturer:


Hi Franco

As a general rule all herbs, spices and sugars are ok to add to a dry or immersion cure. Things to avoid adding are strong acidic or alkaline ingredients like vinegar as particular acids react with the cure. The addition of extra salt is also should be avoided as the cure contains plenty.
>From the recipe below I do not foresee any problem with this mix. One
thing worth pointing out is that if you use treacle or dark brown sugar this will slightly colour the meat. Curing times should also be unaffected.

Regards

Franco

[Rik vonTrense]

Thanks very much Franco....it has gone a bit darker than usual but was hoping it would brighten up with a good simmer......

I think it is suppose to be out today as it has had 14 days in the brine.I will give it a few rinses and soak it for a bit and then we will have a boil up but not as long as three hours.

.

[Rik vonTrense]

Well the Franco modified Wiltshire Cure is out and cut for all to see......



and a different view....




it tastes as nice as it looks too...............


.

[Paul Kribs]

Rik

That looks good enough to eat mate..

Regards, Paul Kribs

[akesingland]

So Rik

How long did you cure it per Kilo?
Also how long did you boil it (again per kilo) and did you bake it/glaze it afterwards?

PLEASE

Cheers
Adam

[Rik vonTrense]

I gave it seven days per kilo plus two and that piece weighed about 1.75 kilos and I gave it 12 dys plus two making 14 days in the brine. Stabbed it repeatedly with a sterilized phillips screwdriver

Was the basic brine that Franco sells but I added a dessertspoon of crushed juniper berries and cloves plus 8 ozs of dark muscavado sugar in half a pint of water.

Manufacturers told Franco that the addition of herbs and or sugar would not alter the nitrate/trite contents of the brine so you could flavour with anything providing it was not salt of any kind.

I washed it in a couple of changes of water and then simmered gently for two hours skimming scum as necessary.

I tied it up before cooking and when cooked I pressed it in a smaller saucepan with weights on a plate.until cold. It was quite dark on the outside but nice an pink all through but not very salt at all more sweet and spicey.

There was no after taste or flavours. I skinned it and crumbed it after.


.

[Oddley]

Manufacturers told Franco that the addition of herbs and or sugar would not alter the nitrate/trite contents of the brine so you could flavour with anything providing it was not salt of any kind.

Rik nowhere in the Manufacturers email did he say the nitrite content of the meat wouldn't be altered. The reason he didn't say that is because it will be if you add soluble ingredients. That is why I asked you to find out, only the manufacturer knows the amount of nitrates they have put in the cure therefore how much of the nitrate will be absorbed by the meat. If you add soluble ingredient to a brine the nitrate content of the meat will drop.

If you are still not convinced please say and I will prove it using FDA formula.

Hi Franco

As a general rule all herbs, spices and sugars are ok to add to a dry or immersion cure. Things to avoid adding are strong acidic or alkaline ingredients like vinegar as particular acids react with the cure. The addition of extra salt is also should be avoided as the cure contains plenty.
>From the recipe below I do not foresee any problem with this mix. One
thing worth pointing out is that if you use treacle or dark brown sugar this will slightly colour the meat. Curing times should also be unaffected.

[akesingland]

Thanks for your quick reply Rik,

I'm still a little disappointed with Franco regarding the lack of instruction for the curing time. I am currently using Franco's Old English Boiled Ham Cure, I have not tampered with the ingredients at all. The leg was from an Iron age pig (Tamworth/Boar cross) and cost a few pennies so I did not want to spoil it (It is however a stonking 3.28Kg). I did inject it with cure using a syringe a monster of a needle that would scare most people (I work in the biomedical field). Regardless of instruction there must be a linear relationship between weight and cure time, but at the top end this must not be true. Take the example of roasting beef. You would not roast a 8 pound piece of beef twice as long as a 4 pound piece of beef.

It's great to see pictures as it's the best form of reassurance for beginners like me!

Hope all is well
Cheers
Adam

[Rik vonTrense]

Oddley....

that makes perfect sense to me obviously if any addition is capable of absorbing the brine then the meat will not absorbe so much but I would assume that it cannot absorbe more than it's own weight in the total brine and not just the nitrates/trites I didn't know if the sugar would alter the chemical composition of the trates/trites.

In future I don't think I would bother with the sugar maybe just the juniper berries and the cloves and I think it could do with more salt to the ham so maybe a longer immersion or less rinsing.

But there must be some relationship between the amount of brine made up to the size/weight of the meat to be cured.

the instruction are....

100% chilled water
10% cure mix

Remove meat from brine and wash in cold water and allow to dry.

so that means that for every litre of water you dissolve in 100 gms of the cure.......but you could make up five gallons and only put in a couple of kilos of pork.

So there must be an absorbtion rate untill it reaches saturation. Or do we guestimate in the first instance ?

Any comments ?

[Oddley]

Rik meat will absorb 8-10% it's own weight in brine. So if you brine 1 kg of meat it will pickup 80-100 gm of brine. So what we have to do is make sure that in that 80-100 gm of brine there is enough curing agents to cure safely that 1 kg of meat.

If you want to see how I do this, look HERE

And HERE.

[Paul Kribs]

Has anyone tried the wiltshire recipe using a 'bone in' ham??

I was wondering how the bone would affect the calculation, as I have a back leg waiting in the fridge, and thought I would try leaving the bone in for that 'old fashioned' ham shape.. trotter has been removed..

Any comments appreciated.

Regards, Paul Kribs

[Oddley]

paul if you are using a brine with pickup only, then there is no effect on the makeup of the brine. Because it is still only picking up 8-10 it's own weight of meat. If you are pumping, then you will want to pump for the meat weight only. You will have to guess the bone weight and take that off the leg weight.

On another topic Vernon Smith keeps referring to a brine recipe he says you posted. I'd love to see it. Maybe even give it a try. Can't seem to find it.

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=1786

[Paul Kribs]

Oddley

If I have posted a brine recipe, it would not be one that I have formulated.. probably copied one of somebody elses into a thread.. I can recall posting the original instructions for Franco's Old English brine.. but that changed as I seem to recall. If I have posted one that's good, maybe Vernon can point me to it..

Anyways, I shall have a ponder and make up an immersion brine in the next few days, or maybe the wet cure.. Did 1/2 a pig today, and got a lamb to do tomorrow.. all that standing, my feet look like a couple of wiltshire hams..

Regards, Paul Kribs