Ham Questions

[dougal]

OK. I'll have a go.

Lets work in consistant units g and kg. Not gallons and pounds!
Mixing the cure: They say 2 lbs to a gallon of water. That'll be a US Gallon so about 8.33 lb.
So having established the ratio 2:8.33 we could convert to any other weight units.

Your ham weighs 5.67 kg so 10% of that would be 0.567 kg or 567g of brine to be injected.
Following Oddley's suggestion of having some for the thing to sit in for a week or so, lets mix up some extra. How much extra? How about something like a litre and a bit for its bath?
Taking our 2:8.33 ratio, we might mix 400g of cure mix with 1666g of water to make 2066g of brine.
Injecting about 570g (note that is NOT 570cc) of this brine should leave plenty enough for a bath.

Just injecting it, we will have 567g of brine, containing 2�(2+8.33) of the 567g injected being dry cure ingredients, ie 109.8g of dry cure, implying 0.82g of nitrite (0.75%).
Relating the 0.82g of Nitrite to the starting 5670g of meat is about 0.000145 of the meat weight or 145ppm, nicely below the US limit of 200ppm.

But we want to soak it as well.
Since the dry cure contains 0.75% of Nitrite, there's a total of 400 x 0.75 � 100 = 3g of Nitrite *total* in there whether pumped or in the residual brine.
If we immerse it long enough to reach equilibrium, 5.67 � (5.67 + 2.066) of that, ie 0.733 of the 3g, ie 2.20g would be in the meat (according to the Meat Inspectors Handbook concept).
2.2g compared to the 5670g meat is 0.000388 or 388ppm
The US limit is 200 ppm, so we don't want to let it get to equilibrium by immersion.


So 145ppm from the pumping, but soak it in the remaining brine for long enough and it could end up as high as 388ppm.

I don't know how to calculate how quickly the nitrite concentration would rise towards equilibrium.
If we **assume** that it would rise linearly, and that it would attain equilibrium in 4 weeks, then it would pick up about (388-145)�4 ie 61ppm per week.
Hence at the end of the first week it would be about 145 + 61 = 206ppm or just fractionally beyond the US limit.

Hence (if the assumptions are valid and my numbers are right) there shouldn't be any harm giving it seven days (but no longer) immersion in the residual brine.

How do those numbers look to others?

[Oddley]

I agree with you that it is a lot of assuming at the end there. As I don't think the diffusion is particularly linear in this case as there are a lot of variables like uneven meat thickness and uneven pumping. But I think you are right that about 5-7 days is good enough.

But even if it did reach an equilibrium of 388 ppm. After curing and cooking would only end up as a residual amount of the worst way, about 60 ppm.

[Smokin in Korea]

Thanks Dougal / Oddley for all of your help, I think I have absorbed most of the information you have offered but will need a little time for it to sink in.
Dougal could your formula then be broken down to a per kilo of meat basis for ease of use?

Assuming I leave the Ham in for 6-7 days would I then take it out and boil it until it reaches an internal temperature of 70c? or could I slow cook it
I would also like to introduce some smoke it my cooking process somewhere through the process.

[jpj]

always slow cook your hams! if you can control it. preferably at approx 82c.
check your grigson book for the MAFF graph for cooking larger hams

if you leave your ham to dry for a few days, after coming out of the brine, and then cold smoke for a few nights/sessions. then simmer, gives a good result.

[Smokin in Korea]

Thanks JPJ,
I do not have the grigson book as yet so cannot check the graph.

Do you know if it is posted on this forum somewhere?

[Paul Kribs]

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=396&highlight=cooking

Regards, Paul Kribs

[Oddley]

Until Dougal posts a formula, try one of these they are for this cure at 10% pump only and will work out the amount of cure to use for a certain amount of water. I didn't know what system of measurement you are using so I made a formula for each one eg: US, Imperial and Metric.

US Pints * 16.674 * 23.9894
----------------------------------- = Cure in Ounces
-----------------------100

Imperial Pints * 20.045 * 23.9894
----------------------------------------- = Cure in Ounces
-----------------------100

Water Millilitres * 23.9894
------------------------------- = Cure in Grams
-----------------------100

[Smokin in Korea]

Thanks for the breakdown Oddley,
I have ordered my leg and should receive it on monday so I shll keep you informed of my progress, in the mean time I have just put a Buckboard cure on a 5kg piece of belly Pork and can't wait.
You may be able to help me with another question I have in regard to achieving a good smoke colour on my bacon.
I have been cold smoking my bacon in a Bradley smoker for 3 hours and have tried with the vents a 1/4 open and 1/2 open on different occasions and do not seem to be able to achieve the same colour as some of the bacon pictures I have seen on the forum. I am hanging my bacon vertically in the smoker and am wondering if I should try it horizontaly so as I get more surface area into contact with the smoke.
Am I on the right track or do I need to increase my smoke time?

[Oddley]

Sorry can't help with smoking, as I have no room to have a smoker.

[Smokin in Korea]

Cheers Oddley, Perhaps somebody may read my post and help out.

I will be picking up my pork leg for my ham so I may need to draw on your expertise once more.

Would you know if there is a recipe for making ham on the forum as I have had a look but cannot seem to find one?

[Oddley]

Smokin in Korea, you may do better putting your smoking question as a new topic in the Smoking and Barbecuing section of the forum. I know there are a number of knowledgeable smokers on here.

If you like I'll knock you up a simple ham cure. If you want any specific ingredients in it just say. A couple of questions first.

● Is it going to be air dried or a cooked ham
● What cures do you have, Prague #1 #2 etc
● Do you want to do an immersion cure or a pump cure
● What is the weight of meat.

[Smokin in Korea]

Hi Oddley,
I would like to do a cooked ham (Boiled) to start with as I beleive you have to have the right drying conditions to do a dried one.
I would like to use the cure we have already discussed in this topic and do a combination pump and immersion brine. I will be picking up my Leg today and have been told it will be around the 5kg mark but I can let you know the exact weight in a few hours.
I don't have any specific ingredients to include in the brine as our choices are fairly limited here, we do have the standard range ie Bay leaves, Pepper corns etc.

Thanks for all of your help.

[Oddley]

Right, as soon as you have an exact meat weight post again and I'll work it all out for you.

Also can you tell me what you want to work in ie: US, Imperial or metric

[Smokin in Korea]

Cheers Oddley,
The O/H is on her way to pick up the leg now and should be back in an hour or so.

Metric is good for me


What are you doing up so early?

[Smokin in Korea]

Hi Oddley,
Well I had a strange experience here today. The butcher decided he would deliver our leg to us due to the inconvenience of yesterdays mix up but when my wife opened the door to him he had 2 full legs (10+KG) in a ice cooler, he then proceeded to ask how we would like it cut and how many we wanted.
Korea is a very service orientated country howevr this takes the cake, anyway we now have a nice 7.8kg trimmed leg in the fridge which brings me to my next point.
The butcher has advised that the pig was only slaughtered this morning and then immediately chilled.
Should I be letting it Hang/Sit in the fridge for a day or so before I apply the cure??
Looking forward to your comments and recipe.
Darren