Curing then serving rare

[Josh]

Has anyone done this? Recently I've been playing around sticking various cuts of meat into cure to see what it tastes like. I've currently got a couple of duck breasts curing in a cure #1 mix so they need some cooking once cured really. If I was cooking duck breasts normally I'd serve them underdone to keep them nice and moist. Can I still do this once they're cured?

Same if I cured a steak I guess. Could I serve it cured and rare?

Ta.

[dougal]

Curing?
In one direction you are heading for real (ie nothing to do with Fray Bentos) "corned" beef and gammon.
In the other, brining poultry and pork (in particular) makes for a plumper, moister, result. Water, salt, flavourings... simple. Use of sugar tends to divide people, I think a little helps.
I now think its practically essential before barbecuing (for the north american cousins - I'm talking about grilling over charcoal) for chicken and pork. Just the odd hour or two makes a heck of a difference.
Regarding the Cure No 1 and its Nitrite, that depends on whether you like the look of the pink and the slightly hammy/gammony flavour.
Go easy on the Nitrite, but there's no cure/rare bad interaction that I'm aware of. But brining or curing shouldn't change the need to cook things "properly" if thats what you're asking...

[Fricandeau]

My research has lead me to believe that properly cured meat of any type can be served without further cooking. Duck can have a problem with salmonela, but if it has been cured well in an appropriate environment the bacterial load isn't a problem, so it can be served sliced thin with the condiments of your choice. Why you'd want to is another question.....

[Spuddy]

Josh,
The simplest answer to your question is that if it is a meat that can be served rare BEFORE curing then yes you can serve it rare AFTER curing as well. (If that's what you meant?)
BR
Spuddy

[vinner]

Dougal Wrote:

" I now think its practically essential before barbecuing (for the north american cousins - I'm talking about grilling over charcoal) for chicken and pork. Just the odd hour or two makes a heck of a difference. "

This is a very astute observation on 2 fronts. On the first front, we in North America now tend to think of BBQing as 2 distinct styles. One is direct grillling. The other is indirecting smoking.

The second front is that, yes, brining is an outstanding technique prior to grilling. I won't grill without it, nor will I roast a chicken or a turkey. For steaks, I simply coat them with salt, then into the fridge for 3 hours. Brush off the salt, grill, enjoy.
[/quote]

[pokerpete]

Dougal Wrote:

" I now think its practically essential before barbecuing (for the north american cousins - I'm talking about grilling over charcoal) for chicken and pork. Just the odd hour or two makes a heck of a difference. "

This is a very astute observation on 2 fronts. On the first front, we in North America now tend to think of BBQing as 2 distinct styles. One is direct grillling. The other is indirecting smoking.

The second front is that, yes, brining is an outstanding technique prior to grilling. I won't grill without it, nor will I roast a chicken or a turkey. For steaks, I simply coat them with salt, then into the fridge for 3 hours. Brush off the salt, grill, enjoy.

[/quote]

I don't think that here that we subscribe to salting the steak (in this case) before BBQing as it tends to leach out the natural fluids in the meat. Perhaps some pepper, but definately no salt.

[Spuddy]

I don't think that here that we subscribe to salting the steak (in this case) before BBQing as it tends to leach out the natural fluids in the meat. Perhaps some pepper, but definately no salt.

Agreed (to a degree), however brining has the opposite effect. I often brine chicken for 24 hours before roasting and other meats too (generally with little or no nitrites) and find that flavour, texture and succulence is improved greatly.
I think that here in the UK we are often too blinded by preconceptions and misconceptions to experiment with such things.
I know it's nothing to do with brining but a good example of this kind of misconception is the indian method of dropping raw meat directly into the base of the curry sauce to cook rather than "sealing" it first by frying it.
Our preconceptions tell us that this will make the meat tough and dry however it has the complete opposite effect (as anyone who has spent any time in a good indian restaurant will testify).
The concept of brining (effectively a saline marinade rather than a cure) before cooking IS a fairly modern American idea but is one that a lot of us in the UK could (and should) learn from.

[Fricandeau]

On the brining issue, one of the books I've seen recommended in a couple of other threads is Fergus Henderson's awesome book "Nose to Tail Eating." Mr Henderson, may the lord preserve him for ever, is a great advocate of brining, and the recipe for brined belly pork is one of the most sublime dishes I have ever cooked. And all it is is belly pork brined for three days and then roasted in a moderate oven, but it melts in your mouth. I served it to friends who later told me that the loathe fatty meat, and generally only eat Asian food, but they argued over a choice and very wobbly chunk of fat.......... Better than foie gras.
As to salting steak. I think that it should be salted on the side that goes to the heat first just before searing, the other side should be salted just prior to turning it over.

[pokerpete]

On the brining issue, one of the books I've seen recommended in a couple of other threads is Fergus Henderson's awesome book "Nose to Tail Eating." Mr Henderson, may the lord preserve him for ever, is a great advocate of brining, and the recipe for brined belly pork is one of the most sublime dishes I have ever cooked. And all it is is belly pork brined for three days and then roasted in a moderate oven, but it melts in your mouth. I served it to friends who later told me that the loathe fatty meat, and generally only eat Asian food, but they argued over a choice and very wobbly chunk of fat.......... Better than foie gras.
As to salting steak. I think that it should be salted on the side that goes to the heat first just before searing, the other side should be salted just prior to turning it over.

I don't disagree with your method of cooking steak, but would you pack it in salt and leave in the fridge for three hours before cooking it? There is a big difference between brining, and packing in salt.
I will happily brine chicken, so long as it hasn't been pumped, and then smoke it, the same goes for turkey breast.

[Fricandeau]

That was my point: steak needs salt, but only a little and then only at the very last minute. It's probably as good to cook the steak unsalted and then salt it on the plate just before service. You can tell a steak that has been salted even ten minutes before cooking as it alters the crust: the meat tends to stew if fried, and dry out if grilled.

[vinner]

When I first had "Salt Cured Beef Steak", it was a grilled 2 inch thick ribeye. When the waiter told me how the chef prepared it ..... coated with 4 tablespoons of kosher salt 3 hours prior to grilling, then brushed off and grilled medium rare..... well, you could have knocked me over with a feather.

In the September Bon Appetit magazine, from Table 8 Restaurant in Los Angeles, comes this:

3 Bay leaves, crushed
1 Tbs whole black peppercorns
2 tsp whole white coriander seeds
2 tsp fennel seeds
2 tsp mustard sees
2 tsp dried rosemary
1/2 tsp dried red pepper flakes
1 tsp plus 1 1/2 cups kosher salt
1 30 ounce porterhouse or t-bone steak (2 to 2 1/2 inhes thick)

1/4 cup water

Mix first 7 ingredients Transfer 2 Tbs spice mixture to a spice grinder and grind finely. Mix in 1 tsp salt.

Rub spice mix on steak. Wrap in plastice wrap. Chill 3 hours.

Preheat oven to 475 degrees F. Unwrap steak. Place in large ovenproof skillet. Mix whole spice mixture with 1 1/2 cups kosher salt. add 1/4 cup water and stir to moisten. Pack salt mixture all over top and sides of steak. Roast until instant read thermometer registers 130 degrees F for medium rare, about 25 minutes. Let stand at room temp for 8 minutes. Crack salt crust with wooden spoon. Discard. Slice steak into 1/2 inch slices.

I have also have raosted chicken that was rubbed with a lot of salt, refrigerated for 24 hours, then brushed off and roasted. The proof is in the taste, and these have never failed my taste tests in the past.

[Fricandeau]

Actually Vinner, you're right.

I've eaten whole fish baked in a salt crust many times and the fish is always sweet and moist, and definitely not over-seasoned, and I've cooked chickens in the Chinese style known as Beggars Chicken where the bird is wrapped in lotus leaves and then slow roasted in about ten pounds of a salt/flour dough. Very tasty. So I guess that theres no reason why a good, thick, well-marbled steak shouldn't respond the same.

I'll give it a go with a double fore-rib (my favorite Sunday joint) one weekend and let you know.

[pokerpete]

I've been thinking about this a bit, and there are probably two different issues
Americans like their steaks thick and fat, hence the 2 inch ribeyes. If we wanted to cook five 2 inch Aberdeen Angus steaks for the family we would have to sell the car. Beef is much cheaper in the USA, and don't forget that Vinner is from Texas. Cattle country.

[vinner]

Pete's right, of course. A 2 inch thick rib-eye, quality abgus, on sale, pound and a half, would go for MAYBE $10 USD. It would feed the 3 of us here. But the technique works just as well with wild (lean) venison.