Dry Bacon Cure Recipe Question

[Oddley]

boslow I really don't know what fatman meant so I think I will leave it to him to explain. I too love loin bacon and have made quite a bit up to now.

When choosing the meat I will choose meat that looks good not too floppy and watery ( to use all the technical terms lol ) but I think a good tip is find a good butcher and tell him what you want the meat for. I personally would not be tempted to buy my joints out of Tesco for instance.

[Parson Snows]

Oddley

you wrote

When choosing the meat I will choose meat that looks good not too floppy and watery ( to use all the technical terms lol )

refer to "Cookery in general/Meat Quality Problems"

kind regards

Parson Snows

[Oddley]

Deb Things have gone a bit off topic.

In the bag bacon

Franco recommends his Cure#1 at 1 gm per 1 lb of meat this is all you have to know for dry cure. As 100% of the cure will be absorbed. you can then add salt and sugar in the amounts you think fit but remember salt is the carrier of the cure into the meat this is achieved by osmosis.

I would personally use cure #2. Franco recommends this at 1 gm per 1 lb of meat then salt and sugar as above.

With salt and sugar
8 parts salt
2 parts sugar
Seems reasonable to me.

I personally weigh up the cure for the meat only. For example for a 2 lb belly at 50% fat to meat I would use cure #2 at the rate of 1 gm. There is no scientific proof that I can find for this but as fat is not absorbent ie saturated this is only common sense.

[Parson Snows]

Oddley

Deb wrote

At the moment I have some saltpetre so will use it but I'm probably going to change over to cure#1 (which is used for things that are going to be cooked I believe so is the correct one for bacon). How much of the cure#1 would I use to replace the saltpetre in this recipe?

That�s what I posted for her (for 100 lbs and 10 lbs of bacon)

You wrote

I would personally use cure #2. Franco recommends this at 1 gm per 1 lb of meat then salt and sugar as above.

DO NOT USE CURE #2 FOR CURING BACON the reason for this is that a combination of sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate has long been associated with nitrosamine formation (cancer producing cells) in bacon when cooked at high temperatures such as frying. This problem only exists with bacon and no other cured meats. For the same reason, in the US, nitrate is no longer permitted in any bacon production (pumped and/or massaged, dry cured or immersion cured).

For further information the following links may be referred to
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w00/nitrosamine.html
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distributi ... J0974.html

Kind regards

Parson Snows

[Oddley]

Parson nowhere in both documents that you have given a link too. Have said anything that indicates to me that bacon dry cured with sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite is more likely to produce a higher nitrosamine count than bacon cured with sodium nitrite alone. Have I missed something if so I would be obliged if you would point it out.

This is for pumped bacon only not what is being discussed here dry cure.

Effective June 15, 1978, the USDA changed the curing procedures of "pumped" bacon as follows: the use of sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate is prohibited; the level of ingoing sodium nitrite shall be 120 ppm (or 148 ppm potassium nitrite); the level of ingoing sodium ascorbate (vitamin C) or sodium erythorbate (isoascorbate) shall be 550 ppm. According to USDA surveys, these changes have resulted in bacon that does not form nitrosamines when cooked at 340 degrees F for 3 minutes on each side. These three changes apply only to pumped bacon and do not apply to dry cured bacon.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distributi ... J0974.html

I have not seen any other evidence that the use of sodium nitrate is banned in the production of dry cure bacon in the USA.

Producers in this country are still producing bacon with saltpetre as we all know this breaks down to potassium nitrite with a residual of potassium nitrate I don't see the difference between using saltpetre and cure#2

This conversation is one of the reasons I have asked Franco to post the data sheets for the bacon cures If we knew what was in them we could then for instance add some ascorbic acid to reduce nitrosamine formation.

[Parson Snows]

Oddley

sorry that I can't make this page (318.7) any bigger. But if you read the bottom left hand corner it states "Nitrates shall not be used in curing bacon."



I'll response to the rest later, have a rush on

kind regards

Parson Snows

[Franco]

Parson,

how do Wall's get away with adding nitrates to their bacon then?

The following shows the ingredient listing for Wall's Unsmoked Back bacon



as you can see it contains both sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate.

hope that this is some use to you

kind regards

Parson Snows

[aris]

Perhaps because Walls do not sell their bacon in the USA?

The EU do not appear to have this restriction.

[aris]

Perhaps the US are being over cautious. Check this link:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID ... 414B7F0000

[Oddley]

For anybody interested here is the link to the full and most recent document Parson eluded too.

First some relevent extracts.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 9, Volume 2]
[Revised as of January 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 9CFR424]

[[Page 649]]

plans and methods of analysis that are used will result in approximately
the same likelihood as under paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section of
having a presumptive positive result when the true mean level of
nitrosamines in a production lot is 10 ppb. In the event of a
presumptive positive result, the establishment shall become subject to
the provisions of paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section.
(2) Immersion cured bacon. Immersion cured bacon may be placed in a
brine solution containing salt, nitrite and flavoring material or in a
container with salt, nitrite and flavoring material. Sodium nitrite
shall not exceed 120 ppm ingoing or an equivalent amount of potassium
nitrite (148 ppm ingoing) based on the actual or estimated skin-free
green weight of the bacon bellies.
(3) Bacon made with dry curing materials. With respect to bacon made
with dry curing materials, the product shall be cured by applying a
premeasured amount of cure mixture to the bacon belly surfaces,
completely covering the surfaces. Sodium nitrite shall not exceed 200
ppm ingoing or an equivalent amount of potassium nitrite (246 ppm
ingoing) in dry cured bacon based on the actual or estimated skin-free
green weight of the bacon belly.


[[Page 651]]

product appear to be better or of greater value than it is. Therefore:
(1) Paprika or oleoresin paprika may not be used in or on fresh
meat, such as steaks, or comminuted fresh meat, such as chopped and
formed steaks or patties; or in any other meat consisting of fresh meat
(with or without seasoning).
(2) Paprika or oleoresin paprika may be used in or on chorizo
sausage and other meat in which paprika or oleoresin paprika is
permitted as an ingredient in a standard of identity or composition in
part 319 of this subchapter.
(3) Sorbic acid, calcium sorbate, sodium sorbate, and other salts of
sorbic acid shall not be used in cooked sausages or any other meat;
sulfurous acid and salts of sulfurous acid shall not be used in or on
any meat; and niacin or nicotinamide shall not be used in or on fresh
meat product; except that potassium sorbate, propylparaben (propyl p-
hydroxybenzoate), calcium propionate, sodium propionate, benzoic acid,
and sodium benzoate may be used in or on any product, only as provided
in 9 CFR Chapter III.
(b) Nitrates. Nitrates shall not be used in curing bacon.

Click here to goto the page

[aris]

What's with the restriction on Paprika?

[Oddley]

No idea aris they don't give explanations. The most important part is even in your link aris the absence of nitrosamines is considered important so whatever the consensus at the end of this discussion is. I think it most important that we use the correct amount of sodium ascorbate or sodium erythorbate.

Franco please take note it is quite important for you to post those data sheets so we can add the above ingredient in the correct proportions.

Better safe than sorry.

[Parson Snows]

Aris you wrote

Perhaps because Walls do not sell their bacon in the USA?

Correct Wall�s do not export to anywhere.

Franco you wrote

how do Wall's get away with adding nitrates to their bacon then?

I wrote before

Sorry I should have probably made the posting clearer. What I was pointing out was that

1) Nitrates (whether they be potassium or sodium) are still used in the U.K. where as in the U.S. Nitrates (of any sort) are not allowed in Bacon Production.

Oddley you wrote
the full and most recent document Parson eluded too.

not sure exactly what this means � if you view what you posted bottom left corner

only as provided
in 9 CFR Chapter III.
(b) Nitrates. Nitrates shall not be used in curing bacon.

It mentions 9 CFR Chapter III if you look at the page I posted (though small it may be) I think that you can see that it refers to the same document number.

A larger part of � 318.7 which also states no nitrates in bacon products.



kind regards

Parson Snows

[Franco]

Ive been on to my supplier today, they are going to send the data sheets for all the cures plus the ones for Sodium Nitrate and Sodium Nitrite on their own.


Franco

[Oddley]

Thank you franco thats great.

parson what I meant by

For anybody interested here is the link to the full and most recent document Parson eluded too.

Was the image you posted

As this image was so small I found the page on the net so everyone could read it. In these sorts of discussions I don't mind proving myself wrong if it gets to the truth of the matter. It being such an important subject.

In this case as we are in Britain it's OK to use cure#2 to cure bacon but taking all precautions against the production of nitrosamines by the use of sodium ascorbate or sodium erythorbate